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(WIP) v065 Merge Discussion

I like to discuss, What should be merged into the v065 Masters. I have some Texture Replacers that I would like to see in the new Build, since they replicate the original art style very well and boost performance in certain areas. Most of these mods below can be found on my Nexus Account or in Morroblivion Improved v0.1.1.

Note: Morroblivion Improved will NOT be merged into the Master everything included is separated.

Below are the Textures, That I would like in v065

Already Merged into v065, These were separated from Morroblivion Improved

  • Improved Kwama Eggs: Provides a new model and textures, Identical to the original!
  • Oblivion Style Quest icons: Provides original Quest icons based on the Quest-Line in the style of the Vanilla oblivion icons
  • Oblivion Style Faction icons: Provides original Faction icons based on the Faction in the style of the Vanilla oblivion icons
  • Improved Sack: Provides a new model and textures, Identical to the original!
  • Improved Basket: Provides a new model and textures, Identical to the original!
  • Improved Guar Skin Banners: Identical to the original
  • The Caldera Patch: Only the interior part was merged, Provides Bug Fixes to Door Markers and Path-Grids

 

I was also considering Morroblivion - Improved Landscape lod and fps - for v064 and Dunmeri Urns, The only issue with Dunmeri Urns in 1 Urn floats slightly off the ground it's something I could easily fix

 

 

 

 

Edited by: qwertyasdfgh on 01/27/2020 - 06:50
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In my opinion, switching to

In my opinion, switching to texture replacers which are similar to the original Morrowind would be a mistake.  Bethesda has made it clear that they do not want us using game assets from the original Morrowind (in a different game engine).  Our goal should be to distance ourselves from including anything in the Morroblivion master which resembles the art-style of the original Morrowind.  Ideally, people should be able to glance at the default Morroblivion game assets and know immediately that they are not based on Morrowind assets.  All mods which recreate the original Morrowind art-style should remain separate and independent (unofficial) from the main Morroblivion project.

With that in mind, I vote for the Oblivion style quest and faction icons to be merged into the master.  Regarding the Improved mods, I like that they are replacements for the original assets, but making them look "identical to the original" would be an invitation for Bethesda to investigate us for possible legal issues: making sure that those assets only look like the original and are not directly made from them.  Ex: upscaling textures with AI algorithms would potentially violate copyright laws since the original work was directly read into an automated system to generate the higher quality version.

 

Just to clarify: I am still a supporter of keeping Morroblivion reasonably faithful to the original Morrowind, especially because it allows easier compatibility with Morrowind Mods which are ported to Morroblivion.  However, I think an exception must be made to the visual and audio aspects to avoid the issues above.  Here are some links to relevant documentation on Fair Use Copyright Laws and Transformative projects:

 

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I have made this topic sticky

I have made this topic sticky, instead of my old one.

If my vote counts I support including the urn replacer, but not the linked architecture textures (simply because I actually like current Morroblivion textures more).

Regarding legal issues, you seem to be overthinking it a little bit - the only thing Bethesda's EULA prohibits is literally porting assets between different games. Creating something from scratch even based on their design is fine. Also, let's not forget we're talking about a 14 years old game, modding scene for which is a ghost town.

 

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qwertyasdfgh wrote:

qwertyasdfgh wrote:

Regarding legal issues, you seem to be overthinking it a little bit - the only thing Bethesda's EULA prohibits is literally porting assets between different games. Creating something from scratch even based on their design is fine. Also, let's not forget we're talking about a 14 years old game, modding scene for which is a ghost town.

You make valid points.  I agree that something made from scratch based on the original art-style is probably fine -- as long as the original work was not directly used as a template.  However, I would disagree with any suggestion that Bethesda lawyers would not care just because this is a 14 year old game and its modding scene is a ghost town.  Let's not forget that this is an industry known for "surprise mechanics", "canvas bags" and "horse armor".

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ponyrider0 wrote:

ponyrider0 wrote:

Let's not forget that this is an industry known for "surprise mechanics", "canvas bags" and "horse armor".

All of which, while bad practices, are ultimately for profit. I just don't see what profit can Bethesda possibly gain now by going after a couple of modders. Unless, of course, they plan a Morrowind remake (in which case Skywind will be their first target).

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I honestly do not think we

I honestly do not think we should merge any texture replacers.  Let the user decide on an optional texture pack if they so desire it.  We should respect the considerable work of those who have developed Morroblivion in the past.

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ponyrider0 wrote:

ponyrider0 wrote:

You make valid points.  I agree that something made from scratch based on the original art-style is probably fine -- as long as the original work was not directly used as a template.

My apologies for my wording "Identical to the Original" While the textures are indeed in the Style of the original, They're not the same at all. They're cleaner and much Higher Resolution then anything from 2001. They're created no different then Skywind Textures. Any Replacers I ever port are Entirely remade from scratch, I contact the original authors to verify it and look into the Model Data personally. The last thing I want is a Ban from Nexus.

ponyrider0 wrote:

Let's not forget that this is an industry known for "surprise mechanics", "canvas bags" and "horse armor".

qwertyasdfgh wrote:

All of which, while bad practices, are ultimately for profit. I just don't see what profit can Bethesda possibly gain now by going after a couple of modders. Unless, of course, they plan a Morrowind remake (in which case Skywind will be their first target).

I totally agree^ Bethesda wants nothing more then profit, If they wanted to "Attack" Morroblivion they probably would of done so already considering it's been more then 10yrs and even then they would go after Skywind and Skyblivion due to their sheer size and community around them.

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A Side note! Regarding

A Side note! Regarding Textures, All the above mentioned Texture replacer will not be merged just left separate. However I did merge the Guar Skin Banners since their original counterparts where "2001" compliant :P .. The difference between the two were merrily resolution!

What's everyone thoughts on Model Replacers? New Models with Remade Textures, It's more appealing and people may enjoy the updated items.


I would propose I recreate the Normals of the current textures, I do like the default textures but they're normals are off? Atleast see how the effect looks in-game..

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I want to clear up confusion

I want to clear up confusion regarding the copyright situation and Bethesda's motivation to ban us from official websites and nexus.  Bethesda is not the copyright-holder that concerns us: instead there are "third parties".  Bethesda has been signing limited license deals with these "third parties" to use game assets in single games.

This is what I think potentially happened: when Morroblivion re-used Morrowind assets in Oblivion, the "third parties" sued Bethesda for unpaid royalties from our usage.  Since it would be useless to try to sue the mod developers for monetary damages, Bethesda was losing money to their lawyers for every billable hour until the case was resolved.  The only thing they could do was to minimize their financial loss as fast as possible.  First, they officially distanced themselves from Morroblivion, by black-listing us from official forums.  Then, they tried to prevent future problems by scaring the rest of the modding community enough to try to prevent similar copyright lawsuits in the future.  They probably even threatened Nexus with monetary damages if they ever host Morroblivion or similar projects in the future.

This is a completely different situation than what Skywind and Skyblivion face.  While those projects are afraid of competing with a potential official remake, ours fears are related to pissing off Bethesda executives because they need to pay lawyers to deal with our copyright high jinks.  And everyone gets angry when they have to pay lawyers for no good reason, especially game executives who would rather focus their time on how many more billions of dollars they can make from microtransactions.

Personally, I think Bethesda executives are more than happy to allow us to continue developing free mods which increase nostalgia and enthusiasm for their old games.  Modders are the reason Bethesda's old games still sell for $15 or more.  We just need to avoid making them angry.

To bring this all back to my original comments: I am not interested in whether or not we can win a copyright lawsuit related to our game assets.  If a copyright lawsuit is ever filed, we will have already lost because I don't think any of us will be hiring an attorney.  I am just trying to suggest an overly cautious strategy to avoid even the appearance that we might be infringing on a copyright.  As long as everyone understands what the issues and motivations actually are, I'm fine with whatever we do.
 

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If we replace the old models,

If we replace the old models, we lose them from the build, with no option to choose to install them.  I guess I just don't see what's wrong with letting people choose something like a Morroblivion Improved if they like it and their system can handle it, while keeping the old meshes and textures in the official build out of respect to the modders who brought Morroblivion to v064, where it has been enjoyed for over five years.  Crush the bugs, add the few things that were missing by all means, but keep it the Morroblivion we have come to know and love!  Many people will appreciate an overhaul and download it separately.  Plus, we do not have to concern ourselves with larger and larger bsa files if we keep v065 consistent with v064.

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v065 should be close to the

v065 should be close to the final release of the Base Installer with the exception of..

  • Added or Fixed Path-grids
  • Added or Fixed Normal Maps for the Default textures
  • Bugs Fixes
  • Fixed Existing 3D Models, May include UV Map, Collision Data or Misc tuning

I'm almost certain 99% of the Bugs are already fixed between ponyrider0 and brainslasher besides some quirks, don't quote me on that one though as I'm not certain.

Anything added or improved would fall under the category of "Morroblivion Improved" Which would include..

  • New Model and Textures
  • Filled/Updated Landscapes
  • More Oblivion-like addition

I think doing things in this approach would allow user to install the Base along with Past Morrowind Mods or if they want a more modern approach they can optionally install Morroblivion Improved.

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Will it be possible to

Will it be possible to continue playing v64 savegames normally?

Will the innovations from the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch (Socucius Ergalla Class Quiz, Multiskill trainer & Quest to initiate the Oblivion main quest) be included in the new master file?

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Depend on the circumstances.
Depend on the circumstances. Generally speaking yes, however some fixes may not be applied fully. However there are some things that may prevent a smooth update. I don't know fully what's changed, but I know that the next release will include a revamped system for Werewolf transformation and Hircine's ring (more precise, optimized and less crash prone), that is composed by total different script that the one in he current master. (I know as I wrote both systems). Updating while the werwolf quest script is active can be unsaviour, and I feel to discourage it.
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This is an updated list of

This is an updated list of known bugs for Morroblivion: https://morroblivion.com/forums/morroblivion-problems/active-morroblivion-bugs-and-fixes-list-2020

My estimate is that 99% of known bugs for the main quest are fixed.  The Tribunal and Bloodmoon expansions are completable, but still may have some bugs in their main quests (more playtesting and reports needed).  Faction quests and side-quests have the most known bugs, with some of them still requiring console commands to complete.

Regarding compatibility with v064 savegames, we won't know for certain until we have a chance to playtest v065, but I think we can make some estimations:

  • Just like with the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch, existing savegames may not be able to take advantage of certain bugfixes: modifications to persistent actors and persistent objects (NPCs, doors, some quest items), some quests where dialog is already incorrectly advanced to an unfixable state.
  • As llde mentioned, savegames where the character is saved in werewolf state will be highly incompatible, causing crashes and/or locked player controls.
  • v064 savegames where the character has not advanced in the Bloodmoon or werewolf quests will be most compatible.
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If you recnetly started a new
If you recently started a new game with the last version of EngineBugFixes the issue that caused persistent reference data stuck in the savegame is resolved (until object is moved/modified by a script).
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What are everyone's thoughts

What are everyone's thoughts on incorporating OBSE and all the required OBSE plugins into the Morroblivion Installer?  It would greatly simplify installation of Morroblivion.  I do not think there are any mod-managers that natively support installation of OBSE and OBSE plugins, so there should not be any incompatibilities with it being installed via the Morroblivion Installer.

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I belive may violate author's
I belive may violate author's permissions. And while it may be not an issue for OBSE (but ask shadeMe before), for some others plugins it may be more problematic
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Well, yes... obviously we

Well, yes... obviously we will have to ask for permission but if we set that aside for now, can anyone think of any other reason why we should not include OBSE in the installer?  If there are no reasons other than permission issues, then we can reach out to the authors of the required OBSE components for permission:

  1. OBSE (ianpatt, behippo, scruggsywuggsy the ferret, Timeslip, The J, DragoonWraith, SkyRanger-1, shademe, kyoma)
  2. MenuQue (kyoma)
  3. Elys Universal Silent Voice (Elys)

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

 

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Any chance of getting

Any chance of getting permission to replace the current legion helmet with this: https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/20676? Maybe without the feathery part?

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OBSE is trivially easy to

OBSE is trivially easy to install, and most modders will have done so before tackling Morroblivion. Wrye Bash can install OBSE plugins just fine, though it throws up a warning.

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I defiantly support the idea

I defiantly support the idea of merging the required OBSE plugins, would make the process alot easier!

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Morroblivion v65 Status

Morroblivion v65 Status Update:

 

Morroblivion v65 development is still making progress.  I have been involved with development for the last several weeks.  I apologize for the lack of updates before now.

In early March, Daggerfall-Rebuilt-Dev sent me a developer-build of v065 for testing (Dev-B1).  I identified several bugs and volunteered to fix them.  However, I became ill and had to stop working on those fixes for several weeks.  About 1 week ago, I resumed work on the fixes.  Unfortunately, I realized that at least half of my work and notes I had done so far were during a fever-confusion and not very reliable.  So I decided to spend most of last week reviewing and documenting the changes made from v064 to v065.  This included extending an experimental ESM-to-JSON decompiler system and posting the resulting JSON source code on github:  https://github.com/ponyrider0/Morroblivion-JSON

The JSON source code allows us to use traditional developer tools to search and analyze the ESM source like any other programming proejct.  In addition to Dev-B1 and v064, I also decompiled and posted the JSON source code for qwertyasdfgh's developmental v065 Morroblivion ESM, the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch and the Unified Hotfix Addon.  I posted a preliminary result of my findings on github here: https://github.com/ponyrider0/Morroblivion-Partial-JSON/issues/1

To summarize that page: several bugs were discovered in Dev-B1 which required fixing.  The possible solutions include (1) directly fixing those bugs in Dev-B1, or (2) restarting the merger from qwertyasdfgh's developmental build of v065, or (3)  restarting the merger from scratch.  My recommendation has been to make whatever decision allows us to publish a bugfixed v065 as early as possible.  Then, we can follow-up with a v066 with feature additions and improvements.

I have now completed my review of the source-code:

1. v065-Dev-B1:

  • All features from Morroblivion Unofficial Patch, including multi-skill-trainers, improved character generation, enhanced Cast-When-Used system for ranged magic effects.
  • Includes most features from v065-qwerty except where they are over-ridden by Morroblivion-Unofficial-Patch.
  • Additional improvements to pathgrid, item placement.
  • Integration of several enhanced models and textures, several conflicts with v065-qwerty enhancements.
  • Bugfixes from Morroblivion Unofficial Patch and the Unified Hotfix Addon.
  • 175 broken records related to OBME-subrecords and merge-bugs.
  • ~120 duplicated dialog records, with broken voiced dialog.
  • Another 50+ records duplicated quest and script records.
  • Time estimate to fix: 2 weeks.

2. v065-qwerty:

In staying with my initial rules for early release of v65 (bugfixes only and no new features), my recommendation is that we apply those patches to qwertyasdfgh's version of v65 and release it.  Note: I am only considering critical bugfixes which prevent completion of quests. Any other non-critical fixes or improvements were not factored into decision making.

In my opinion, the current Morroblivion Modding Community revolves around shared ideas, shared modding projects and shared decision making.  Please post your comments, questions and opinions below.  Thanks.

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I would say go with the

I would say go with the second option.

It seems like overall better and also less error prone.

 

 

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#2 seems the ideal way to go.

The second option seems the ideal way to go.

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Based on the information

I think it is more important to start with a more stable base game with less things integrated into it, but can add more "stuff" later then to have more things integrated into the base game but at the cost of a more unstable base, where further additions would lead to further instability.

So I vote for option (2) v065-qwerty!!

Having said that, it would be great to include the rest of the Morroblivion Unoffical Patch fixes such as multi-skill trainers that wasn't included, the bug fixes for the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch, the Unified Hotfix Addon, the fixed path-grids and fixed normal maps for the default textures.....

I also agree with and think it is a good idea to incorporate OBSE and all the required OBSE plugins into the Morroblivion Installer.... I don't see a reason why not. Even if the end-user already has OBSE and the required OBSE plugins installed previously, the Morroblivion installer will just overwrite them.

Summary: I vote for option (2) v065-qwerty!!

PS: I am happy for you Ponyrider0 that you have recovered from your illness :)

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Clarification: v065-qwerty

Clarifications:

-----------------------------------------

v065-qwerty has EVERY bugfix from Morroblivion Unofficial Patch.  It also has most of the bugfixes that are included in the Unified Hotfix Addon.  It is only missing a handful of bugfixes released within the last 7-8 months.  v065-qwerty also has several ENHANCEMENTS on top of the original bugfixes in Morroblivion Unofficial Patch.  These changes make it superior to the original bugfixes.

In addition to bugfixes, v065-qwerty also contains visual enhancements to models and textures, enhanced path-grids, tweaked item placement, and re-balanced weapon/armor/magic stats.  It also has an alternative solution to ranged CWU items which much cleaner, lightweight and higher performing than the script-heavy version that I implemented in Morroblivion Unofficial Patch.  I think qwertyasdfgh's solution is also much more stable and will reduce crashes.  There are many more enhancements, please refer to the Change Log for more details.

Again, the only bugfixes that were missing from v065-qwerty were a handful of newer hotfixes.

---------------------------------------------

Regarding v065-Dev-B1, this is built ON-TOP of the v065-qwerty master file.  There are several mergers and changes done over the course of several weeks.  I do not think the changes were "hastily" done.  Trying to modify a huge project like Morroblivion always runs the risk of introducing bugs and conflicts -- regardless of the skill or experience of the mod-author.

Development is a process of fixing bugs and adding features, then fixing the new bugs introduced by your bugfixes and feature additions.

---------------------------------------------

To simplify the question I am asking the community:

  • Do we want to release v065 within the next few days/weeks with less features but ALL bugfixes, and then possibly release v066 with the missing features later this year, Or...
  • Do we want to wait a few more months and release v065 with the inclusion of some of the features missing from v065-qwerty.  Then v066 would probably be planned for release some time next year.
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My vote:  Release v065 within

My vote:  Release v065 within the next few days/weeks!

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I'd say release the 065 in a

I'd say release the 065 in a few weeks. Combined with some announcements, perhaps with help from the Skywind guys, this might get some interest going for Morroblivion. Releasing another patch in a few months will show that progress is still being made here. It'll also insure the least amount of new bugs, though I'm quite confident you're very capable at maintaining a high level of quality.

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My vote:  Release v065 within

My vote:  Release v065 within the next few days/weeks!

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Next few days/weeks would be

Next few days/weeks would be great.

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>> It also has an alternative

>> It also has an alternative solution to ranged CWU items which much cleaner, lightweight and higher performing than the script-heavy version that I implemented in Morroblivion Unofficial Patch.

There is something I want to clarify - will CWU system be included in the master or left in a separate esp? I was originally going to merge it, but didn't, and the esm file I sent to DaggerfallTeamDev doesn't actually contain it. I'm a bit surprised that you mention changes to ranged CWU items in my master.

Now, I was working on some improvements to the system, including handling of the "on-target" items, but because MUOP also made changes to CWU scripts, they were mutually incompatible - this is one of the reasons I didn't merge the MUOP fully, but rather separated it into smaller chunks before merging.

This presents us with another interesting dilemma - whether to use my updated CWU scripts or the ones from MUOP - both kinda went in separate directions. This is important, because I still have the updated UCWUS esp with me, but I don't think I shared it anywhere yet. I assumed that CWU system was not going to be merged, and so was going to update my esp after the v0.65 release for it to be compatible.

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qwertyasdfgh wrote:

qwertyasdfgh wrote:

I was originally going to merge it, but didn't, and the esm file I sent to DaggerfallTeamDev doesn't actually contain it. I'm a bit surprised that you mention changes to ranged CWU items in my master....

Thanks for the clarification.  I had not looked in detail at the CWU scripts yet.  My comments were based on your change log notes, and assuming your CWU "on-target" implementation would be a variation on the technique of custom, hard-coded scripts for each on-target enchantment.

For everyone's benefit, the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch's CWU on-target method uses one generic placeholder enchantment/script and a hand-made lookup table that maps each supported item to that item's real enchantment.  In my opinion, using this hand-made, scripted lookup table is both slow and potentially unstable.  I do like the fact that it is very faithful to the original Morrowind mechanics, but I don't think it is currently at a high enough quality to be part of the core Morroblivion mod.  Example: a placeholder enchantment text shows up on enchanted inventory items and only updates to the real magic effect after the item is equipped for the first time.  In the future, I may update it for compatibility and offer it as an alternative magic mod.

So my vote is to use either your new CWU-on-target system, or revert back to a variation on the original v064 technique (with custom scripts to prevent immediately attacking NPCs when you first equip an item).

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hmmm.... Based on the new

hmmm.... Based on the new additional details that have been provided and clarification of information and simplification of the question, I will still maintain my vote for going with qwertyasdfgh's version of v65.

Because it is more stable and has less bugs. I also think qwertyasdfgh's new CWU system should be included in the master. There is no reason to have it as a separate plugin unless you want to keep the older more unstable MUOP CWU version as an alternative plugin option.

So try to integrate as much from MUOP (without CWU components) as possible, integrate ALL of the Morroblivion Unofficial Patches, all of the Unified Hotfixes and any other fixes, all the improved models, textures, path-grids, stat re-balances, use the new CWU system and release v065!

I think aim to have a strong stable v065 1st before worrying about another quick release of v066. Considering v064 was last updated over 5 years ago, I think include as much as you can in v065 rather then release v065 then v066 a few months later.

Also you should consider compatibility issues, with additional mods. Additional mods that are now currently compatible for v064 might not be compatible for v065, especially if you implement the new CWU system, (texture / mesh mods should be fine though). By the time mod authors have updated their mods to work with v065, and then v066 comes out they would have to update their mods all over again.

I am sure there will be plenty of new bugs still undiscovered or newly created bugs from v065 that can 1st go in a new Unofficial Patch for v065 and then later included in v066.

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@AllisterHenderson: Don't

@AllisterHenderson: Don't worry about your post being "shot down".  If you have a misunderstanding, then other people probably have the same misunderstanding.  So helping you to understand will help other members of the community as well.  Overall, I think you understand the general idea, but here are some clarifications for everyone:

The specific bugs that I listed in my original post are game-breaking issues that prevent the completion of affected quests and/or prevent the use of affected magic.  I felt it necessary to mention them because they were the exact issues that would be fixed and tested in my estimates of the time needed before release.  NOTE: These bugs should not be directly factored into decision-making since, once they are fixed, they would no longer exist.  The only issues which should affect your decision are time needed before release and included features.

Also, none of those game-breaking bugs that I listed (which, again, would be fixed before any release) are caused by any Cast-When-Used (CWU) system.  The CWU-system is a completely separate issue.  As far as I know, the Morroblivion Unofficial Patch's (MUOP) CWU system does not have any game-breaking bugs and has not been definitely proven to cause any crashes.  There is only a theoretical potential for it to be unstable, i.e. if a developer adds many enchantments to the CWU-system, or if the game is heavily modded, the CWU-system may contribute to slow down of the scripting engine and this may lead to more random crashes.  A lightweight system would use less resources and cause less slowdowns when they grow larger.

When I talk about it not being lightweight, I am also referring to a developer's effort needed to work with it.  There are currently multiple levels of indirection in the MUOP's CWU system: developers must attach a placeholder enchantment to the item, then update the hand-made lookup table with the real enchantment.  If done correctly, there will be no issues, but there is a theoretical potential for developers to make a mistake with the placeholder enchantment, or the lookup table, or the real enchantment.

 

To summarize and emphasize the main message: the only issues which should affect decision-making are time needed before release and included features.

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About master file update:

About master file update:

V0.65 was originally scheduled to be released in late 2015 and I was making good progress on it, but then had some changes IRL and didn't have as much time for modding anymore - today's mess is the result of that. I do believe that releasing v0.65 sooner, even with less potential features, is the preferred course of action here for 2 reasons:

1.) Community needs a solid basis to work on. Current master is 5 years old, there are 2 (or 3?) bugfix packs available for it (which all depend on each other in a weird fashion), not counting a multitude of smaller fixes. When a new master becomes available, we can check which of the optional mods need updating and what other things need fixing (I can almost guarantee you, some new issues will crop up as soon as v0.65 is out) - v0.66 would need to be released one way or another, probably later this year. And it's not a bad thing either - more frequent updates, but with less changes are way easier to work with.

2.) "Including as much as possible" is a slippery slope - with project like this, potential bugfixes or enhancements can easily be never-ending and the release will be delayed and delayed again. I've fallen into this trap before, both with Morroblivion and with Av Latta Magicka, for example. At some point you need to draw a line.

About Cast When Used system:

UCWUS was originally made by me in 2013(?) and then included with the main download, but not merged into the master as it was still a WIP. One of the issues with it was the handling of items with target enchantments (Oblivion engine was not made to have anything but self-targeted constant enchantments on apparel, so I had to do some trickery to make everything work). I continued to develop the system, but had to stop, as I mentioned above. Then ponyrider came with MUOP, which, among other things, expanded my original CWU system. I have not looked at it closely, but based on his description above it seems to handle target enchantments similarly to what I was developing (although technical details may vary). To sum it up:

1.) MUOP CWU and my CWU are not really that different - they are variations of the same and one is not necessarily more stable or reliable than the other.

2.) Neither is currently merged in the master. And, contrary to my original plan, I do not think it is wise to merge it now, not until a consensus reached on how the system should work and bugs are fixed.

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I agree: let's keep the CWU

I agree: let's keep the CWU system unmerged for v065, and focus on releasing it as soon as we can.  In order to expedite the process, I will incorporate the hotfixes that are missing from v065-qwerty into a new developer build and send it to people involved with development for testing.

Regarding the missing features from MUOP like Multi-Skill Trainers, I will start work on separating them back out into individual mods and make them compatible with v065.  The only reason they these mods and the multiple bugfixes were all combined into a single MUOP was for convenience.

 

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Ok, that makes sense.... I

Ok, that makes sense.... I guess if you keep on trying to include more and more, v065 will never be released.

Once the missing features from MUOP have been separated into individual mods and made compatible with v065 will they be integrated into the v065 master along with the unified hotfix....

So it's been decided to keep CWU as a separate plugin. What about the other plugins included in the install package....                                                     

Morrowind_ob-Morroblivion Maps.esp   

Morrowind_ob-Chargen and Transport Mod.esp

Morrowind_ob-MorroblivionTreeReplacer.esp 

Morrowind_ob-Conversation.esp

..... will these be integrated into the v065 master?

What about the BSA's.... would you merge the Meshes.bsa, Sound.bsa,Textures.bsa and Morrowind_ob - Conversation.bsa into one BSA.... also will the bsa be packed with no compression, which would mean a bigger filesize, but the game will read it faster.

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It's unlikely any of these

It's unlikely any of these mods will be integrated. Map replacers need to be low in load order. CaT mod and TreeReplacer are optional, not everybody needs them. Conversation could've been integrated, but it edits quests from Oblivion.esm and it's preferred for the master to not edit anything from Oblivion.

Combining the BSAs into one is not possible, because the maximum archive file Oblivion supports is 2Gb (and it won't offer any benefit anyway). Having BSAs uncompressed is potentially beneficial, especially if using SSD.

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Okay :)

Okay :)

Well I can't wait to see v065 :)

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Sorry about all the questions

Sorry about all the questions....

In the changelog for v063, https://morroblivion.com/content/morroblivion-changelog, I noticed there was added built-in compatibility with Oblivion XP. Will v065 be compatible with the new Ultimate Leveling by Maskar https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/49134, all even the older Realistic Leveling https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/13879

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Is it incompatible?

Is it incompatible?

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I have never used Ultimate

I have never used Ultimate Leveling so I don't know about Ultimate Leveling. I have used Realistic Leveling with Morroblivion and haven't noticed anything like CTD's, although I didn't play enough to notice if it leveled differently or not. It's just that a special mention for built-in compatibility with Oblivion XP was mentioned for v063, so I figured maybe built-in compatibility was necessary for the other level mods to work properly too.

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I don't think there are any

I don't think there are any issues with leveling mods and Morroblivion. The "compatibility" with Oblivion XP just sets the customized XP values for different quests.

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Morroblivion v65 Status

Morroblivion v65 Status Update:

 

I have sent out a new developer build to the community members involved with development/testing: Dev-C2-update.  This build contains a number of bugfixes for the Dev-C1 build, which I sent out on April 13th as described here: https://morroblivion.com/comment/88632#comment-88632

The specific modifications include:

  • Master file:
    • ESM integrity fix for missing objects, other bugs caused by v065 merge operations (opened and resaved with CSE).
    • Commented out UCWUS initialization calls in mwFnInitialize() to maintain compatibliliy with original v064 UCWUS system.
  • Chargen-and-Transport-Mod:
    • Script and record updates for compatibility with v065's integrated Better-Chargen mod.
    • Integrated Open Cities Compatibility Patch.

I'll try to post these changes to the Github repository, but the volume of changes caused by the open/resave operation require me to do a full ESM decompilation.  So it will take some time to prepare that.

All ESP files from v064 are now updated for compatibility or verified as working with the v065 Dev-C2 build.  I have only been able to do a few hours of play-testing, but so far I am only seeing some non-critical bugs that do not limit gameplay.  I will try to do some more play-testing and compile a list of known issues and missing features.

Due to the need for verification of legal copies of Morrowind and Oblivion, we can't do a traditional "open beta".  However, perhaps a few trusted, long-time community members can volunteer to do rigorous testing to see if they can get anything to break, especially in the 3 main quests (Morrowind, Bloodmoon, Tribunal).  Thoughts?

 

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Sounds like a good idea to

Sounds like a good idea to have more people testing, if they've been active for a while. The more the better. Testing Tribunal, everything seems fine so far. Didn't see any other issues either yet.

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Morroblivion v065 Status

Morroblivion v065 Status Update:

I have now sent out the Dev-C3 build of v065 beta ESM.  It merges in the following changes submitted by qwertyasdfgh:

- Added a check for EngineBugFixes OBSE plugin, if it's installed then Morrowind_ob.esm no longer requires to be loaded in second spot
- Added a check for Morroblivion_Unofficial_Patch.esp, to inform people that it is not needed with v0.65

There's also one additional change that I forgot to note in the Dev-C2 update:

- Renumbered two REFs which over-rode oblivion.esm records.

One known issue is that the errorcheck for "Morroblivion_Unofficial_Patch.esp" (as well as many of the changes to v065) will fail to run because "Morroblivion_Unofficial_Patch.esp" actually over-writes them with the older version.  If you do a "double-override" by putting the v065 mwMainMenuScript in the BashedPatch or another ESP file after "Morroblivion_Unofficial_Patch.esp", then the errorcheck will run successfully and issue an error message at the main menu screen.  So, it does work when not over-ridden....  I'm not sure what to do about this outside of making another separate QuestScript to check for over-ridden QuestScripts, and then make it a rule to NEVER over-ride the over-ride checking QuestScript.  That seems like a good idea, considering that having Morroblivion_Unofficial_Patch loaded will UNDO many of the 2018-2019 hotfixes.  For now, I'll leave qwertyasdfgh's changes in place without additional changes.

I've been doing rigorous play-testing of character generation and some of the early quests and things appear to be working well.  There is one known issue where the window to customize your class immediately after doing the class quiz is skipped.  However, you can still customize the class at the door to exit the Census Office, so this is not a game-breaking issue.

I will be unable to work on the ESM master for 1-2 weeks, but hopefully someone else can step in to do any necessary changes to the developer release and the trusted members can continue play-testing.  I have not heard a single response or request other than from Brainslasher regarding "closed beta" testing.  I think most members may be busy or distracted by other things at the moment.  Hopefully there will be more member activity in the next few days.  I'll try to check forums intermittently, but my involvement will be minimal for the next couple of weeks.

Also, the github repository for the Morroblivion JSON source code is now updated to Dev-C2: https://github.com/ponyrider0/Morroblivion-JSON/tree/v065-beta-Dev-C

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Morroblivion v065 Status

Morroblivion v065 Status Update:

I have only been able to do minimal testing of the Dev-C3 build of v065 in the last two weeks.  However, within that time, there has been a sharp increase of bug and crash reports for Morroblivion Unofficial Patch+Unified Hotfix Addon. 

I am going to pause work on v065 to investigate these bug/crash reports to make sure there are no major bugs being incorporated into v065.  It will probably take me about 1-2 weeks to investigate these bug reports and do integrity checks on the all the hotfixes.  After that, I will try to figure out if it is worthwhile to work on any more v064-based hotfixes or just incorporate changes directly into v065.

In the mean time, hopefully we will be able to get some volunteers to do more thorough testing of the Dev-C3 and/or work on a Dev-C4 with one of the proposed solutions for the mainmenu script over-ride issue that was mentioned in the previous status update.

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I make textures substitutes

I make textures substitutes by myself and offer a similar choice for users. In addition, this will negatively affect the weight of the archives. I can help with testing if I'll know what changes have occurred since version 0.64.

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Morroblivion v065 Update:

Morroblivion v065 Update:

Hi, everyone. Unfortunately, I have not made much progress since the last update.  I have had my hands full with a lot of real life issues including health, finances, family.  Personally, I feel like I have been struggling to find the energy, motivation and enthusiasm to keep going.  Maybe the story is the same for a lot of you as well.  So, rather than try to continue with closed-beta testing and further discussions, I think the best course of action may be to just package what we have into an Installer/Resource file and release Morroblivion v065 as-is.  Since the current Developer version of v065 is focused on bug-fixes only, hopefully there will be a net positive benefit over staying with v064.  I think this will also let us all take a breather and avoid burn-out of our interest and motivation for Morroblivion.  Please let me know how everyone feels about doing this.  Thanks.

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1) Where can I find logs

1) Where can I find logs about all the changes for 0.65?
2) Of course, I would like you to finish the job, but if there is no more strength, you can think about the release version.

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It would be best to just

It would be best to just release it now with all of the fixes that have been made so far, in my opinion. Hopefully with the new fixes that have been listed at GitHub, such as the ESM file integrity and Renumbered Refs. People have already been waiting a seriously long time.

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