CTD when going from Interior -> Exterior cells (Balmora, Ald'Ruhn)
| Project: | Morroblivion |
| Component: | Graphics and Gameplay |
| Category: | bug report |
| Priority: | normal |
| Assigned: | Unassigned |
| Status: | closed |
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Everytime I try to go to Balmora my game crashes to desktop. I first discovered this when I transported to the Balmora mages guild from Sadrith mora wolverine hall. When I opened the Balmora mages guild door to go outside the game crashed. I attempted to fast travel from sadrith mora to balmora with the same crash. I can go places other than Balmora. I have also tried waiting three days to see if that would fix it, like it does with some of the suspected "creature created" crashes, but it didn't. (In fact I experienced getting attacked by an ash ghoul each time I slept in the mages guild bed.. I dunno if that's a glitch.)
I have not downloaded or installed any new game mods or content other than the updates to the morroblivion files. The last time I played successfully was around version 28 or 29 so I'm not sure which version may have caused this. I also switched to morroblivion visual overhaul V1.0 and then back to [Relz] high rez texture packs with normal maps (without meshes). I'm not sure what is causing the crashes, help?
Also, I uploaded a save game for anyone to check out. It is saved just inside the Balmora mages guild. Links are in order Kittie1.bak, Kittie1.ess, Kittie1.obse and Kittie1.obse.bak.
http://www.mediafire.com/?4q9dlzxv1gqvzg4
http://www.mediafire.com/?ts4u8kzbmfc4mcr
I had this same issue with Ald-Ruhn.
Try teleporting to Fort Moonmoth and then walk to Balmora. If that works, then try teleporting away from Balmora and back.
This method worked for me.
Thank you Robert! I feel a bit silly for not thinking of this myself. It worked, I successfully was able to get to Balmora using this method, teleported to wolverine hall, used the mages guild to get to the one in Balmora, then went outside. Everything seems to be working fine now. What would cause it in the first place is still curious though.
Yeah, I wander what causes this?
I've actually been crashing when I try to exit interiors into cities, most primarily Balmora. Usually I have to try and wait for a while and/or leave through a different door. Happened to me on both v30 and v31. No idea of the cause but it seemed to coincide with the inclusion of Eloths visual overhaul.
This is almost certainly the same issue that is going on in this thread:
http://morroblivion.com/random-game-crashes-near-caldera-etc
Luckily there is a solution to the Cell Buffer Overrun issue, detailed here (david also describes it in the project release thread):
http://morroblivion.com/random-game-crashes-near-caldera-etc#comment-6294
Thermador, I have the PCB installed and neither esp has solved the problem for me, nor did streamline. My problem (and what I think is the OPs problem) doesn't occur when in the game world, but during load screens when going through a door, I was under the impression PCB was only for when in the open world and transfering between areas that background load. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm a bit slow to learn this stuff.
Hum, OK my apologies, I misunderstood the issue. I have never experienced this myself, so...
* Can someone confirm that it happens with just base Morroblivion installed, with Hashmi1's texture pack installed, and/or with eloth's visual overhaul installed? If we can narrow it down to a problem with base Morroblivion versus a graphics upgrade that would help a lot.
* For people that experience this, how many other mods are you running and what are they? A lot of mods use transitions between cells to recalculate things (as I understand it), so that could be an issue.
When it happened to me, I was on a fresh install of base Morroblivion. However, I was using Eloth's Visual Overhaul. I only had mods that Morroblivion and Eloth's Visual Overhaul required.
@Hollistn: have you tried Robert's suggestion?
It's not consistent for me. When it happens it occurs regardless of how I get to Balmora and sometimes it doesn't occur at all (although it happens at the mages guild the most). I've also had it happen in Vivec. The inconsistency of it is why I never created a bug report. I am only running morroblivion, eloth's visual and replacers as well as your world transport. I have also at times ran the key ring. My last finals are tomrrow and then I have a few weeks off to play. I will try and capture a save that recreates it.
I seem to be encountering some trouble with MorrOblivion, when I start a new game in Vvardenfell, (I'm using Thermador's transport mod) it all appears to work correctly, and seems awesome, until I exit the ship to Seyda Neen, about 1/3 or 1/2 way through the load I CTD. I tried this with all non required mods disabled and found the same result. I even got sent to jail by attacking the guard, and found that I could load and play in the inside of Fort Pelegiad, but as soon as I went outside there I encountered the same problem. Any ideas on what is causing this/how to fix it?
- Im 90% sure i've installed Vvardenfell Imports correctly
- Running on Windows 7, neither Oblivion or Morrowind are installed inside of Program Files
Another possible solution may be turning off distant land in the game's video settings. People having this problem and please let us know.
Some discussion HERE and HERE.
Disabling distant land worked for me, many thanks.
instead of just disabling distant land, try to delete all _far.nif distant files you can find in meshes/morro/x and in meshes/morro/f and see if that also helps.
Just updating. When I first reported this problem it had been the first time it had ever happened to me. Since then i've installed streamline 3.1 beta and I have not encountered it again. That doesn't mean it may not pop up in the future. Needless to say with streamline installed my game runs much smoother and I am also having random ctd's much less often so i'm happy.
Also, before I reported this problem I had been typing "pcb" into the cheat consle regularly so I would hazard a guess that isn't what caused it.
I had the crash when leaving the ship and any other interior cell, as well. In investigating it, I found that the morrowind_ob.esm was getting lots of error reports from Wrye bash. I converted it to an .esp, loaded it into the CS, saved it, and converted it back to an esm (conversions done using TESGecko). Since then, my game has been rock solid. Not crah one, and excellent frame rates (though I cannot compare the latter to a "before" because I couldn't play the game "before"). Might want to check the .esm to see what is going on. Anyone having this problem might want to try my solution.
Spoke too soon...
I crash going into the courtyeard at Fort Moonmoth. I can provide a save if desried.
Since this has not had an update for about a month and it looks as if it's on the back burner, I thought I would share what I've found in case anyone has an interest.
I started with a new install of Oblivion. installed in C:\Oblivion. I re-downloaded everything for morro and installed in this order.
Morroblivon Complete Installation Part 1.rar
Morroblivon Complete Installation Part 2.rar
Morroblivon Complete Installation Part 3.rar
Additional Support Files 1.rar
Additional Support Files 2.rar
Eloth Misc Items & Ingredients.rar
Vvardenfell Imports 1.7z
Vvardenfell Imports 2.7z
Vvardenfell_Imports_Part_3-28245.7z (this is the esp only and causes a ctd. I don't use it.)
Vvardenfell_Imports_Patch_1-28245.7z
Vvardenfell_Imports_Patch_2-28245.7z
Vvardenfell_Imports_Patch_3-28245.7z
MorrowOblivion_World Transport.rar
Morrowind_ob Version 034.rar
I played up to level 10 (used console to level up) and found I could not go anywhere in the ashlands without ctd. Just about all interiors cause a ctd. Lower level characters do not cause ctd .
For what it's worth, here's what I found:
pcb and cell buffer overrun has nothing to do with any of this. LOD on/off has nothing to do with this. Missing nif files has everything to do with it.
I found several creatures that have missing skeleton.nif files. Well .. not actually missing, but just pointed to a folder that doesn't exist. Look at Creatures\StormAtronach\Skeleton.nif or the winged twilight for an example. The creature is always pointing to a folder that doesn't exist or is not in the proper subfolder. Sometimes the needed nif is located in ..meshes\Creatures\ .. other times it's located in ..\meshes\morroblivion\creatures .. sometimes it's just not there at all.
I fixed some of them by substituting a working creature nif for the missing ones, but the real solution would be to just get everything installed in the right folders and then point each creature to its' respective nif in the cs.
Sounds like a job for whoever controls the Morrowind_ob.esm ...
I've had similar things, which I usually put down to the stress of Morrowind's world on the game engine, however, I did get a crash that was odd; it happened when walking over the hills from Ald-Ruhn to the nearby fort, and it was odd because it kept happening in the same place. It stopped happened when I followed the path instead of going over the hills. It's like I triggered something by walking there.
The skeleton thing sounds plausible, but then why would it only happen during exterior load screen area transitions? Would'nt a creature infested dungeon be just as likely as a crash?
Something else about the creature meshes, I had the unfortunate accident of going into one of em Ancient Dunmer Fortresses while, as I found out, a Cliff Racer was folowing the game went from its generally fairly stable (fps of about 10-60) to about 1 fps until I found and killed it, the moment the death animation started the insane lag was over.
For me I think the game has a crash sweet spot at Sadrith Mora, from all the places to fast travel to it's prolly the one I've seen most often crash on me (the Sadrith Town marker, not the Wolverine Hall, so fixing it short term was not a problem), with probably Balmora as a second, while Ald Ruhn was relatively calm in crash sence.
Of those 3 the amount of active NPC's is probably highest in either Balmora or Ald Ruhn, neither is there a clear one that stands out in the amount of creatures nearby. I'm suspecting it's the building meshes, Sadrith Mora is chockfull of buildings, probably the densest city in that respect of the top of my mind, with Balmora also having alot of it and despite Ald Ruhn being a fairly big city it lacks this feature (prolly due to the Emperor Crab shell).
So perhaps something with the building meshes, textures? Or some issue that Oblivion has with rendering alot of houses? I recall vanilla Oblivion using less but bigger houses in their city's and ofcourse Oblivion did'nt have shit on the sheer raw NPC numbers that populate Morrowind so this might be an engine bug, just hope there's actually a solution as my game crashing every 3-5 hours is somewhat annoying(but very doable as I already finished the Main and the Thieves).
You've missed my point completely. I'm not offering a theory like everyone else is .. I actually looked inside the esm to see whats there and what is not there. I found exactly what I expected to find. Take it for what you think it's worth.
I fixed my v.34 esm by changing things that should not need to be changed, but the real fix will come when all the creatures and daedra in the esm match the actual locations of the nif files in whatever creatures folder is used. As a side note, I also found daedra and creatures intermingled in the same locations in the cs. It almost looks as if 2 or 3 people were all working on creatures and daedra at the same time and not talking to each other.
It's not theory or conjecture when I say "I found several creatures that have missing skeleton.nif files". They are missing. Do not exist. They are defined in the esm but have no skeleton.nif or body.nif sitting on your hard drive waiting to be loaded when the 'leveled list' wants one of them. Instant CTD.
I tried to explain this in the past, but there were too many theorists offering 'reasonable possibilities'. Fact is, there are many reasons why a ctd can happen. For Morroblivion, it usually happens when two or more internal pieces of this mod fight with each other, some piece got installed wrong, or some induvidual piece of this mod is missing and the game engine cant handle it.
Since we use 'Leveled Lists' to have various creatures and daedra appear on cue, the ctd appears to be random. In the v34 esm it's not random. It happens every time in any cell that has one or more of these missing creatures in it. I just substituted working creatures for the missing creatures. Problem is, you have to use a character that is at least level 9 or 10 before you see some of this.
I'm sure this will be fixed soon. The ctd issue will disappear when everything is as the game engine expects it to be.
(here's my original suggestion to fix this)
More (maybe too much) information ..
The Hungar nif does not exist. I changed all the hungars to winged twilights ...
Shivering isles has hungers, why not use them?
Morrowind also has a hunger.nif.
Why not use it?
Actually, was'nt saying it was a theory that the mesh paths where confused, the thing is just that presenting an error in the mod and linking it to a specific crash is not that easy. To begin, this mod is still full of issues that are still undiscovered, not to mention the near impossibility of truly understanding how the Oblivion system works. And with alot of the meshes that ARE being used and most likely pointed to the wrong path not causing crashes it is fairly clear that it is not that simple.
For me the intermittance of the crashes has been more in the 3-5 hour range, crashing on load screens, generally when fast travelling or rarely when going from interior to exterior, and with most of the crashes being in highly populated areas, making me think more of building and NPC issues (perhaps their meshes even) then creature mesh problems.
I have also experienced the exact same situation as the OP, albeit with a hut of a woman that needs her guar protected against fierce mudcrabs, part of a redoran quest with the hut having its own fast travel marker, after running several save games that all crashed I got it working again after travelling back and forth between some other city first.
Your issues seem very different and especially as you describe the problem to be level relevant, I'm on v34 and with a level 18 Argonian and the crashes have not been doing any better, going to Mournhold has made it a little bit better, but still crashing occasionally on bigger, populated but obviously creatureless environments. In the case of your specific problems I'd say your explanation most likely the right one, but these are somewhat different then what OP describes.
As a matter of fact, as it seems to be an entirely different problem with a different solution you should probably create seperate thread for it.
Ok .. It sounds as if everyone is having a problem different from everyone else. I guess I'll just fix my problem and quit complaining. No need to clutter up the forums with silly stuf.
My problem started when I re-downloaded everything and did a fresh install. Look at my previous posts to see what I downloaded and installed.
I know this will not be received well, but someone needs to look at the creatures and daedra meshes. A few of them appear to be corrupt and cause a ctd when encountered in game. Some even cause the construction set to crash.
I'm sure I've done something wrong when I downloaded the files, so most likely no one else is experiencing this problem ..
Well, if you want someone to look into it, or want to coordinate your effort to coincide with other people that might be working on it you should prolly give it it's own thread, my comment was'nt because I thought this thread was getting cluttered up (it's a forum, who cares) but because it might bring this problem to more attention, and let people who experience the same issue as you find the bug thats relevant to them easier via the search option.
The mod components you have are fine, I have the same just with the lute music mod added, and having installed Eloth's visual but then installing the orignal morroblivion files over it again because of Eloth's making my game about 10 times as crashable, might be a coupla leftover meshes and textures but I doubt it'd make any difference for the creatures.
Another thing, Bethesda engines, wonderful studio and all that but GOD do they know how to make an engine that's likely to crash, first time I played through Morrowind, 3 computers and nearly 10 years ago the thing crashed about once every 5 hours, very similar to what I'm experiencing with the added bonus of it not being a CTD but a complete reboot. I'd just gotten a new computer that should've been able to handle the game fine, but because of stuff like memory leaks and bad optimisation messing with your CPU's stability and temp it was a unstable mess right from the get go.
The system after that, that was waaay overspecced for Morrowind even had crash problems with it, similar issues, combined with some stuff that had to get fixed by patches, Oblivion was the same unstable mess over again, crashing every so often the first playthrough, only this time not giving me a world to explore and save I was actually interested in, not to mention those godamn oblivion gates (all felt like doing 1 dungeon 10 times or so, NEVER with any interesting loot). I think I finished the Thieves and the Mage's but could'nt be bothered to continue playing after the only thing I had to do was continue closing a slew of oblivion gates, tried playing it again recently because I thought to myself:"Maybe I did'nt give Oblivion a good chance, the Oblivion gates could'nt have been THAT bad right? It's Elder Scrolls so with my older refined tastes I might apreciate it now despite of a bit of dungeon grinding." (I'd recently played through every Final Fantasy from 2 to 6 minus except 3)
My poor dilluted soul, at least the crashes where less common though but as of yet I have never finished the Oblivion main.
To get back to some semblance of a point: Bethesda engines have been a mess since they left DOS, one of the most striking things is that it will generally have a high number of people with bugs, but these bugs differ from game to game and system to system, I think Oblivion was completely unplayable a series of ATI's that came out 1 or 2 years ago, while other people had trouble with a certain type of CPU (I recall having to mess around with core ussage because they could'nt be bothered to write a script to set it or, hmmm, idunno, actually OPTMISED their damn system resource ussage, but I once again digress).
Actually, now that I think about it, Morroblivion has been crashing on a very consistent basis for me, not much worse then most Elder Scrolls games have done the first time I played them, and even situations like yours where the game was completely unplayable for stretches of time where not uncommon in both Oblivion and Morrowind, defenite kudo's for that as the team is on par with Bethesda's crash level, while even working in their delightfully crashy system and editor. (yeah even the editor crashes from time to time, altough I suspect windows occasionaly of thinking it's not doing anything because it's loading in specific info and then report it's crashed and I need to close it)
Also, if you think it's your system causing the trouble, a coupla things you might want to add that I missed on the first read:
Unofficial Oblivion Mod
Obse
Both should have links in the download section here, if they don't do anything, consider downloading everything again (where there any downloads that where corrupted?) and follow the step by step install process with all the mods to the letter, and cross you fingers you simply did something wrong the first time around.
Edit: A fine example why you should'nt be posting after being awake for a day or two, I'll clean this incoherent mess up tomorow.
I had this issue yesterday. I walked out of the South Wall cornerclub and i crashed
anyone tried deleting oblivion.ini? My crash problems was fixed when doing that + creating a new character/savegame.
But of course, in addition i run without oblivion mods, just morroblivion.
EDIT: Also try to delete all _far.nif distant meshes(make a backup first) and see if that helps.
Yeah I already read about the disabling distant lands, honestly, if crashing every 3-5 hours means I can see Solstheim from Khuul, so be it.
Also, when your in Mournhold does the game load in distant lands? Because it still crashed there for me.
At any rate I'll be doing some playing now, I'll be turning off the distant lands to see if that fixes the crashing, I recall at any rate that it did'nt matter much for the fps.
i didnt say anything about disabling distant land, i said delete all _far.nif meshes from
meshes/morro/x/ AND meshes/morro/f/
Ok, my bad, I thought those two came down to about the same thing, just moved 'em _far files, turning distant lands back on, I'll see how it goes (with distant lands off did'nt crash but due to time constraints only had 2 hours or so to try it out).
Just had a crash to desktop when fast travelling to Tel Aruhn, this is with distant lands and those other two on and the _far.nifs moved to a harmless directory.
Just finished the Oblivion MQ in 1 sitting and I can with a fair amount of certainty comfirm that the problem does not cary over in Cyrodiil despite having the mods loaded and using a Nerevarine character, not entirely sure about my playtime but it'd say 8 hours without a crash? Which even included some messing around with Redoran Quests for the first 1-2 hours, I guess that at least narrows it down to a bit as far as possible causes of this go, things like meshes and textures are starting to look more and more likely.
Since I fixed the corrupted daedra and creatures in my copy of v34 I've not had a ctd anywhere.
There are still a few nifs pointing to missing textures tho .. When I have a good list I'll post it somewhere.
Sounds good, I'll give yours a run if you need someone to test it on a different system.
Game still can crash on Balmora Mages guild Door every now and the Mainly Bottom Door
Address V028,V029
A LOT has Been Fixed Since Then
Can Close
This