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Dragomir
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[WEAPON CONCEPT] Daedric Weapons

I know I still haven't finished the orcish shield, but Eloth asked me to push this forward a bit. I decided to first do daggers and swords, and then move over to the other ones, just to get a bit of a discussion on silhouettes.



So as you can see they don't look too bad, but they're pretty generic demon weapons. Many of them are actual stock fantasy blades:




(Bethesda actually got sued for that last one).

Naturally, I thought that keeping some of its grit would be nice, but we probably want to go away from generic fantasy direction, as usual. For reference I started looking up weird real weaponry, wasn't disappointed with Indian and African examples.






But, these still don't feel like something I'd like to go for. To understand that, one has to understand what Daedra are according to lore. They're the free spirits of change, undefined, not bound by the laws of physics unlike the nine Divines. They can assume any forms they desire, and reform on a whim. They don't die, their energy is just remolded. So in short, they're alien, from another dimension and chaotic - but they like to represent ideas. They are the everchanging perception of horror, or sometimes beauty, though most of the time both at once. Therefore I'd like to make the Daedric weapons the only set which wouldn't be too realistic. The Skyrim set is not realistic, but due to its crude thick lines it lacks some Daedric elegnace. I'd like crazy, thorny forms that are at the same time organic and flowing, feeling like a skeleton of an alien animal. H.R. Giger aesthetic if you will. Some of the famous Daedric weapons already escape our concepts of weapon categories, like the Daedric Crescent from Battlespire:

Though the Oblivion set is kept pretty low profile and realistic, and the realm of Oblivion itself in TES IV is about as generic of a hell you can get, it still had some thorny forms I'd like to use:


Anyway, that is a lot of talking and very little actual drawings, let me just mention that another good influence would be some demonic weapons from Dark Souls, which is the exact kind of crazy chaotic demonic design I'd like to pursue.


Silhouettes for daggers:


Silhouettes for 1h swords:


Which one you like and why? Which one disgusts you and why? Personally I like most daggers, but I'm not 100% happy with any of the swords (2 is closest), so I might be putting out more ideas after I get some sleep.
Until then, discuss!

Edited by: Taerkalith on 04/02/2016 - 12:09
alysander
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i like 3-2

i like 3-2

Position of blade on 3rd dagger looks like more useful for piercing punch.
2nd sword just looks cool and it's openings looks still functional.

 

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Dagger 2-3 is the ones I

Dagger 2-3 is the ones I prefer, the angle of the blade varies depending on if you want to stab someone, or cut their throat. I am however not sure about the holes in the blades, I know why they are there, but it might look too "modern" in a sense. maybe if one made the holes less round and more organic in shape.

And I agree that nr 2 on the sword looks best, but i think the pommel is too similar to the designs on the ebony weapons.

My 2 cents :)

 

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Some opinions on the swords:

Some opinions on the swords: I really love the scimitar shape of sword 1, although it might be too reminiscent of Hammerfell weaponry in that regard. I'm a bit reserved about sword 3, because it's relatively plain and forgettable. I love sword 4, which reminds me of a machete or similar hacking weapon, although I'd be a bit worried that this would contrast with the more refined and well-smithed Daedric armor.

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Love the look of these.
Love the look of these. Dagger 3 and sword 1-2 will look best in 3d imo. I guess after the rest of silouettes you focus on detail and surfaces then ill take more of an interest again
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Can't decide which one of the

Can't decide which one of the daggers I like, but for the swords my vote goes to 4. It looks brutal.

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No offense, but the swords

No offense, but the swords look a bit like those "badass" weapons you can find in any store that sells comic heroes miniatures. I would think daedric weapons more alien. Daggers I like. :)

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Dagger 3 for me, I'm not at

Dagger 3 for me, I'm not at all fond of forward-curving blades, they strike me as the sort of thing you'd expect in CS:GO or something. Though I think there are too many holes in 3.

Sword 2 has the most appeal. Again, not down for the tilt, but while I do enjoy the scimitar curve to 1, it's a little overpronounced for my taste. 3 is alright, but doesn't really stand out in any way, honestly. 4 just looks like a giant machete - hardly fantastical. 

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The -almost- complete list of



The -almost- complete list of daedric weapons.

As we can cleverly observe, Bethesda has already explored pretty much all the pointy, gothic, badass stuff. We're getting closer and closer to warhammer's dark eldar weapons.


Daedras are not only angry dudes, so I'd say going for pointy because angry is kind of the easy way. Daedras are gods, pretty much, who existed for quite a long time. Refined, elegant, yet disturbing, is more of the direction i'd go for. The only thing that is certain is that these weapons are possessed, practically alive, and inhabited by a guy who will always be older and smarter than you. 
Maybe a more organic, flesh-like take on some parts would be more interesting. After all, if we want pointy stuff, we could still use skyrim's weapons. 
Daedric weapons designs have changed in all the games, why wouldn't we do the same?

Now that I've said that, I cant say that I like any of the daggers, which all look that 1980's fantasy sacrificial knives. 
Fourth sword has something more delicate to it, and kinda reminds me of maciejowski's falchion.

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Nature can be pretty spiky

Nature can be pretty spiky too, and elegant at the same time. When thinking of Daedric forms this is what comes to my mind:



But as I said, I'm not happy with any of the swords yet, so I might try to pursue this feeling a bit more later.

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Well, I agree with Nexos I

Well, I agree with Nexos I will go more in chaotic direction. This is weapon made by gods, so it doesn't have to be forged in normal way (maybe it grows instead of just casting), it could even look impossible to do in this realm. Or even with shapes which will break any other normal-made material weapon and looks unbalanced with unique properties that it is quite handy.. Union of black crystal/metal and flesh.

For now silhouettes I will choose  dagger 3 and sword 1. They look most organic IMHO.

When it comse to ideas sth in this direction below but more friendly for user.

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I'm not a fan of the daggers

I'm not a fan of the daggers but I love your sword designs. If I had to choose my favourites I would choose 2 for the dagger and 4 for the sword. I also wouldn't give up entirely on having some Indian influence in some of these weapons. I think having a Khanda like blade for something like a daedric broadsword would be really cool as there shape is a really good example of 'brutal yet elegant'.

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I like dagger 3 (but they are

I like dagger 3 (but they are all pretty cool) , i really like sword 1, it would look cool with sword 2 hilt. I alos like all the swords in the dark eldar swords and impalers.

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I've always thought that the

I've always thought that the Kris blades from indonesia were very wicked and beautiful looking. The handle is kinda funny looking but that could be changed I'm sure. 

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I've always like the shape of

I've always like the shape of this weapon (except thinner and generally smaller)

http://darksouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/ultra-greatswords/...

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I think you will make much

I think you will make much more and outstanding things with the daggers and swords. Going on crazy nature forms is a good direction. Watch shapes of corals, several animal bones (especially fishes), wood bark structures, plants (ferns) at all - there are many references, so crazy you would have never imagined by yourself! 

Perhaps it´s the best to keep all you know about real life weaponry out of your head and start sketching organic forms. After that you can think about how to make a weapon out of these ;)

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In the lore, daedric

In the lore, daedric equipment is made of Ebony, which is either refined by daedric magic, or has a daedra's essence bound to it, depending on which source you believe. But either way, it's made of ebony. Wouldn't it be more lore-friendly to base the design on that of ebony weapons?

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The shader we apply to the
The shader we apply to the ingame model will signify its material thats all we need
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Makes sense. I just figured

Makes sense. I just figured since the design for daedric weapons seems a bit up in the air at the moment, it might help to keep in mind that they're essentially ebony weapons that have been through a special enchantment process.

For example, ebony weapons don't tend to have a ton of intricate details in their shape, due to the fact that ebony is extremely difficult to work. The details end up coming in the form of etchings or filigree. I wouldn't expect to see an ebony weapon with a lot of spindly bits like the thorns Dragomir is looking at for inspiration. Therefore, I wouldn't expect a daedric weapon like that either, since they're also made of ebony and face the same complications in forging. Or at least, I would expect those parts to be made from another material.

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Free your miiind maaaaan *
Free your miiind maaaaan * tokes doobie Remember ebony is a gods heart blood solidified. When super cooled it expands into obsidian crystals. All this combined with another dimension where smithing practices and geological processes are different and you certainly allow for artistic freedom. This isnt even close to the nerdiest thing ive evet said
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Fair enough. I just figured

Fair enough. I just figured it might offer a bit of direction, but what ever works for you guys.

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It might be worthwhile to

It might be worthwhile to look at some of the concept art for the shardblades and honorblades from the stormlight archive.  There are many similarities with regards to the lore of shardblades vs daedric weapons. 

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I like Dagger 2, as it

I like Dagger 2, as it resembles the Daedric Crescent. I like sword 3 because it looks similar to the ones from ESO and Skyrim.
I don't like dagger 1 or sword 2 though, they just don't look that practical (he says while talking about the most impractical weapons ever).

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Daedric equipment is made via

Daedric equipment is made via a paradox, Lorkhan's blood is mixed with Daedric soul - they are contraries, a bit like matter and anti-matter. I'm not gonna get into the Anuic and Padomaic division (not people even agree with that 100% but whatever it's canon), enough said during the process of forming these weapons from ebony infused with Daedric essence they pretty much come alive. The hardness of forging daedric is not just ebony, it's the fact that the raw material doesn't want to be a sword and bursts into wild forms instead.

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Neeerrrrddddd
Neeerrrrddddd
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Dragomir wrote:Daedric

Dragomir wrote:

Daedric equipment is made via a paradox, Lorkhan's blood is mixed with Daedric soul - they are contraries, a bit like matter and anti-matter. I'm not gonna get into the Anuic and Padomaic division (not people even agree with that 100% but whatever it's canon), enough said during the process of forming these weapons from ebony infused with Daedric essence they pretty much come alive. The hardness of forging daedric is not just ebony, it's the fact that the raw material doesn't want to be a sword and bursts into wild forms instead.

Huh, I know about Anuic and Padomaic division, but I didn't know that the ebony reacted to the daedric essence that way. That's really cool! Anyway, sorry for the lore tangent.

For what it's worth I like dagger 2 the best out of the options here. I really like the forward-curving blade on the daedric dagger. To to me that was a very iconic Morrowind image (ironically, since the design was actually ripped off of a stock edgy fantasy dagger). Dagger two keeps some of that look while moving away from gratuitous spikes, which I like a lot.

None of the swords really look quite right to me. 1 and 4 both look too much like edgied-up versions actual blade designs (scimitar and machete respectively), which seems off for a sword who's raw material doesn't want to be a sword. 3 is closer to the original Morrowind designs, but as you pointed out, those designs were pretty stock. 2 looks the best to me, but it's another forward-curving blade, which I wouldn't want to over-use.

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> live weapons

> live weapons
what gameplay consequences that could have?
if we would have weapon/armor durability - they would regenerate after time.
but without it - this means nothing, imho.

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As cool as I think your

As cool as I think your designs are, I honestly think it might be better to emphasize the same Dunmeri aesthetic that you've developed with your other sets - the book Darkest Darkness describes bound/Daedric weapons as being primarily used by Temple conjurers and priests, and the notes on the original concept art links the different Daedric helms to Temple practices (the Face of God and Face of Terror, for instance, represent the warrior aspects of Vivec and Nerevar, respectively).

http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/72477510017/daedric-...

Additionally, looking at some of the original silhouettes they share a lot of similarities to the ebony, glass, and chitin weapons:

IMO, the Daedric weapons should look like the most refined, most beautiful and deadliest possible version of a Dunmeri weapon, probably originating in Boethiah's realm back in the days of widespread Daedra worship and the Velothi Exodus. All of their other weapons were later developed with local materials in imitation of these designs.

EDIT: I made a quick example silhouette of what I mean, using your ebony longsword as a reference.

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When are people going to



.

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I'm under no delusion that he

I'm under no delusion that he's required to use or even like my ideas, Ravanna- Dragomir mentioned that he was unhappy with the designs he had come up with so far, so I was offering a possible direction forward. Sorry if it came off like he has to drop what he's doing and go with my suggestion instead.

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There's no problem with you

There's no problem with you participating -constructively- to the debate, Jiub. Everyone is welcome to give his two cents on design directions.
While I agree with what you say in your first paragraph, about going more dunmer in the shapes of weapons, steel are being designed, and glass  and silver haven't been started. That's partially why the daedric weapons were not meant to be designed that early. 
Chitin is not really related, aesthetically, since it's using pre made shapes.

 

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As a general note - I won't

As a general note - I won't be able to please all of you at the same time, I suppose ultimately I'll just go with what looks the coolest.

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Perhaps some of the inherent
Perhaps some of the inherent chaos and rebellious-ness of these weapons can be reflected in not conforming to the normal categories of weapons. As in, how about something halfway between a sword or an axe, or a bow that looks just as useful as a spear or sword. There are loads of examples of weapons out there that don't conform to our usual fantasy categories, for example the hook sword: http://www.kungfubrothers.com/images/hooks_trad_kungfudirect... The chakram (which would be an awesome throwing dagger alternative): http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/chroniclesofarn/images/9... And the zhua: http://heroiclegendsonline.com/images/design220/18.jpg All just some quick examples I found on the internet. Edit: other interesting non-standard weapons are sickles, scythes, billhooks, sword staffs/naginatas etc. P.S. I really like sword no. 2, it reminds me of the falx which was employed by the dacians and was apparently extra effective at chopping off Roman soldiers' limbs (so much so that they had to design new arm armour for the dacian campaign), which sounds like something daedra would be in to. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/deadliestwarriorthegame/...
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For daggers I like silhouette

For daggers I like silhouette 2 the most. It strikes a balance between being alien and outlandish on one hand and true to the original on the other.

Also, Morrowind's daggers (as opposed to short swords) are usually used because of their enchantment, otherwise you'd just go with a shortsword that has greater damage. A fairly iconic example of a Daedric dagger carrying a poweful enchantment is Soul Drinker. IMHO the "ritual weapon" vibe of silhouette #2 fits that really well.

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what I personally liked about

what I personally liked about the weapon sets in morrowind (i know you didn't ask for my opinion), is that they had Katana, and other Japanese inspired weapons, not just western ones. i think the inclusion of these weapons might be worthwhile. also, when looking into daedric weapons, categorizing daedric weapons into either "natural" daedric weapons, as in those forged by daedra, found by dunmer, or "synthesized" daedric weapons made by dunmer. doing this would allow for more dunmer inspired shapes, and the more organic interesting shapes. i think this is a good idea, because the two most popular and conflicting ideas can be appeased. you guys have done the same with ebony, (though taking the route of imperial and non imperial) i understand how much work it would be, and i also know that i have no talent whatsoever, just an idea.

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Trick is that the ebony

Trick is that the ebony weapon set, even though showcasing four different cultures (Redoran, Hlaalu, Imperial, Indoril), still has as many weapons as original Morrowind one had. Here the division wouldn't be so obvious, so we'd either have to design and model two separate sets (not worth it), or design different weapons incoherently in style, which was the route I took with ebony, but without symbols it won't work for Daedric.

As for katanas, nah. Not a fan of that sword itself and it doesn't make that much sense for this set. More alien designs that escape earthly perception of weapons sound way more interesting.

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What about a Khopesh?

What about a Khopesh?

Kind of an unusual/alien, but beautiful, shape.

 

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theres a similar 6th house

theres a similar 6th house weapon afk

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Not sure if anyones said it

Not sure if anyones said it yet, but having spikes on the back of your weapons like the axes shown above is incredibly impractical. Remember, you don't want something that can stab you pointed right at your chest. Obviously I understand that these are daedric weapons so the amount of unbalancing decorations are justified through magic or something, just keep it in mind. 

Oh and this should probably be avoided, serration on a blade created to cut through fabric will only get caught on said fabric or bone: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/3/3f...

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I made a thing. Maybe Daedric

I made a thing. Maybe Daedric Broadsword? Something? Anyone?

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I like it.

I like it.

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Thermocrius

Thermocrius

 

Looks pretty cool. the blades design is very appealing, kinda reminds me Uruk-Hai scimitars.

However the spike on the pommel would be a problem, as it could potentially stick into the users hand. Plus the curvy ness of the grip would be very uncomfortable to hold.

 

Tell me if I'm being to practical, I can't help myself.

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These weapons are designed to

These weapons are designed to look impractical. If you're not satisfied with that, here's an explanation why they look so impractical.

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I don't believe this to be

I don't believe this to be canon, but it seems fair enough. 

The Lag Conspiracy
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Dragomir wrote:

Dragomir wrote:

As for katanas, nah. Not a fan of that sword itself and it doesn't make that much sense for this set. More alien designs that escape earthly perception of weapons sound way more interesting.

I'm sure katanas are just as flexible as any other sword design. This idea popped in to my head after viewing this thread and the suggestions on how to make Daedric weapons organic looking. I've made a sort of spine or beanstalk core, spiralling up and out of it protrudes some axe-like blades which all link together to form the sharp side. The crossguard here is a mesh of roots, or nerves, depending on how you view the core. I'm doubting the spikes at the back, but then again, according the post someone linked, Daedric weapons are sentient and if they really wanted to hurt you they would, and I'm presuming vice versa. While this is quite crudely made, I think asymmetry adds to the effect, although only if it were more on purpose.

EDIT: I made a tanto, too.

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Heavy ornamental weapons whit

Heavy ornamental weapons with many small sculptures of daemons and suffering people seem daedric, something like paintings of Hieronymus Bosch in weapon form or hindu reliefs and Rakshasa depictions.

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So, I just found this project

So, I just found this project a couple of days ago and I may have fallen in love.

I like the realistic approach; considering the properties of the materials used amd the methods of construction, that you have taken with the the sets that I have seen so far. (steel is amazing). Because of this, I tried to think about what daedric is and how a smith could form it.

Daedric is made from ebony the solid blood of a god and from dragonborn we know ebony and stalhrim are worked in the same way. Both are magical liquids solidified. This made me think that they could be worked by partial melting and allowing them to flow, into roughly  the desired shape and then further refined, much like how glass is blown in our world.

Daedric is also the combination of to opposite forces stability and change, thus it is an item which does not want to exist and requires a smith skilled enough to work ebony and a mage with the power and force of will to make it exist and reconcile these two concepts. Therefore I believe that the weapons should look elegant as well as cruel and fantastic. I envision the moment when the base ebony blade is fussed with the essence of the  daedra that it twists and deforms the blade, like how a katana takes on its curve when quenched. This is what separates a smith who can work ebony and one who can guide this new almost living metal into a useful form.

All of this lead me try a silhouette influenced by the running form of a river, as it works its way around obstacles rather than against them. I also tried to incorporate the flickering of flames for the same flowing shapes combined with its energetic and destructive nature.

Cheers

I hope this is helpful.  

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Hankshaw
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This sword just manages to

The Lag Conspiracy wrote:

Dragomir wrote:

As for katanas, nah. Not a fan of that sword itself and it doesn't make that much sense for this set. More alien designs that escape earthly perception of weapons sound way more interesting.

I'm sure katanas are just as flexible as any other sword design. This idea popped in to my head after viewing this thread and the suggestions on how to make Daedric weapons organic looking. I've made a sort of spine or beanstalk core, spiralling up and out of it protrudes some axe-like blades which all link together to form the sharp side. The crossguard here is a mesh of roots, or nerves, depending on how you view the core. I'm doubting the spikes at the back, but then again, according the post someone linked, Daedric weapons are sentient and if they really wanted to hurt you they would, and I'm presuming vice versa. While this is quite crudely made, I think asymmetry adds to the effect, although only if it were more on purpose.


This sword just manages to speak to me on so many different levels. It really pops out there which makes it stand out a bit more just brilliantly. The visual aesthetics has a perfect balance being a little bit too Roman while simultaneously not being Roman enough.

I wish I could help to design this masterpiece but unfortunately I have no skills.

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Good to see you all like my

Good to see you all like my idea for the Akaviri/Japanese weaponry. I tried to keep a little nostalgia with the original katana(spot the similiarity in the hilt and pommel, and the colours used) while at the same time adding my own, literal, twist. Hermaeus Mora definitely had a hand in forging this blade. I'd appreciate if someone with better drawing skills(and a graphics tablet) were to remake this design with more refinement.

I believe we can take as many creative freedoms we want when we realize the way every weapon is meant to be used. Katanas, wakizashis, and tantos were all chopping weapons. You won't be stabbing anyone with a katana, which is why you don't need a blade on top. Spears and daggers were thrusting weapons, although specifically the Daedric dagger in Morrowind was equally as effective in all styles of attack(chopping, slashing, stabbing). Once we keep these in mind, we can literally do anything we want with our imagination and our intepretation of what can be a weapon. Katanas, just like western style swords, don't HAVE to resemble their earthly versions. Most of the katanas in Morrowind weren't even curved. For the dagger, adding some spearhead or spike on top would amplify it's status as a stabbing weapon, almost like a miniature spear.

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Pvt Badtouch wrote:

Pvt Badtouch wrote:

Daedric is also the combination of to opposite forces stability and change, thus it is an item which does not want to exist and requires a smith skilled enough to work ebony and a mage with the power and force of will to make it exist and reconcile these two concepts. Therefore I believe that the weapons should look elegant as well as cruel and fantastic. I envision the moment when the base ebony blade is fussed with the essence of the  daedra that it twists and deforms the blade, like how a katana takes on its curve when quenched. This is what separates a smith who can work ebony and one who can guide this new almost living metal into a useful form.

All of this lead me try a silhouette influenced by the running form of a river, as it works its way around obstacles rather than against them. I also tried to incorporate the flickering of flames for the same flowing shapes combined with its energetic and destructive nature.

I like the idea of flowing water, but rather than on the blade itself, I believe the glowing red lines which form on the corrupted ebony weapon  should be the ones which meander. We can take influence from river deltas and tributaries. They form a sort of mesh. Another plus is that adopting such designs would make the surface of the weapon look like run off from a volcano or a foyada, reminding the user that they are on Vvardenfell.

And I also think the concept of Anu and Padomay mixing(the solidified blood of an Aedra combining with the essence of a Daedra) can also be utilized. Maybe we can show the weapons sort of fighting with themselves. For example your sword design can be with the RIGHT side being the side facing the enemy, with the hilt looking like it's on the wrong way, amplifying the weird, repelling nature of the weapon's materials. This is another reason design 2 in the OP looks great, because it looks almost like it's the wrong way on.

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Definitely think that there

Definitely think that there should be some sort of movement, to make them stand out against the other weapons, and make them seem truly alien/otherworldly.

I also like the idea of having sculptures of people and demons in them too. One option could be having the blade made of several thin layers of these, sliding across from one another, as if they're fighting, making the entire blade into a writing mass of pain and hate. The edge could then be made up of the swords/claws/spikes of the sculptures, making it an ever shifting serrated edge, like a demonic chainsaw.

An easier option would be to have the blade like ebony, sleek and elegant, but also slightly translucent. Then, underneath, have the figures moving around, surrounded by fire, as if tortured souls are trapped inside the blade.

Lots of great ideas in this thread; I'm looking forward to seeing how the final concept turns out. And good luck to Dragomir, you might have the most difficult set!

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