Skyrim forced to play on Steam

Everything is going that way. People put up with it. More than that, people apparently embrace it.

Steam has over 30 million users. It's no skin off Bethesda's ass if you and I don't get Steam.

They won't let you do offline mode?

Steam does not even work at my PC. It shutdowns/Crashes my entire PC when i try to open it, it has been 6 months like this allready. So i could not even play Skyrim if i want. So my options are to get new PC or reinstall everything(and hope everything works), or ware it from net...so you can guess which option is most tempting. Damn that Bethesda can be so disapointing these days.

Same with Half-Life 1. What's worse, it keeps crashing at certain points in the gameplay. And no-one seems to understand what is going on either, whichever way I ask.

Probably not getting Skyrim either. I mod the Elder Scrolls games and I feel that while Oblivion will give me more freedom than in Morrowind - Skyrim unfortunately won't. The random quests? Someone did that for a Morrowind mod using nothing but MWSE. Big deal.

My mod ideas are too big for Skyrim. Period.

EDIT: There's a way to play Steam games offline. Google it and you can find out.

Grant it, there are some things worrying me about Skyrim, i.e. only five cities, dumbed down armor, skills, classes, still no spears, crossbows, ninja stars, throwing knives, darts. So I want to get across the point that I am in no way over-hyping Skyrim. 

Seferoth, you can play Oblivion but you can't run Steam? Sounds like you have a problem with your Steam install, another program, or the OS, but I wouldn't jump the gun and start blaming Steam.

EnvyDeveloper, you say your mod ideas are too big for Skyrim? Have you played with the Skyrim CS? What's going to be missing from Skyrim's CS that the Oblivion CS has?

What happened to trying or researching something before making a judgment on it?

I'm talking about what's being removed so far. Granted, Oblivion has crossbow mods, spear mods and the Throw Any Weapon mod. Those put back the missing weapons into Oblivion.

I'm sure there'll be mods like that for Skyrim as well. It's just a matter of porting it over.

But what about the removal of attributes? I had made a lot of artifacts which rely on them. And jumping? I also rely on that. Todd didn't say whether it'll be back or not, though Acrobatics and Athletics have been removed.

this would be an example of legit uses for no-cd cracks. i am in no way endorsing illegal game piracy, but when it comes to being able to use the software you purchase in a way that you prefer, there are always friendly hackers out there making sure we can. i plan on buying it as soon as i can. and applying the crack as soon as it comes out. hopefully sometime soon, someone will get a lawsuit going that will prevent these companies from requiring an internet connection to play non-online games. the consoles don't have to deal with this tripe!

 

the point was made by mr howard that all the attributes did was govern skills. they just cut out the middle man. and i'm pretty sure you can still jump...

"Bethesda today confirmed that Skyrim will use Steamworks. Given the use of Steamworks for Fallout: New Vegas and Brink its use in Skyrim isn't very surprising. Note that the game is still a "Games for Windows" title, but will not use Games for Windows Live."

 

not "steam" but "steamworks". it's not DRM(but it can be, it has not been confirmed that's what they're using it for) it's the equivalent of GFWL, XboxLIVE, Uplay, etc... for tracking acheivements and leaderboards. apparently it's in new vegas, too. i wouldn't know...

 

whatever. skyrim's gonna be way more complex than most any game out there. i know we all loved the super complexity of morrowind, and long for the random CTD of, well, every bethesda rpg. but what you trade for stability is complexity. and, who knows, the mod community is still going to be encouraged. perhaps you will be the one to resurrect attributes...

 

No-CD cracks are really...um...unreliable. Look it up.

what would i know? i've only been using no-cd cracks to preserve my discs for a decade. they're totally legit if you have an actual copy of a game. what do you find so unreliable about them?

 

EnvyDeveloper:

Granted, Oblivion has crossbow mods, spear mods and the Throw Any Weapon mod. Those put back the missing weapons into Oblivion.

 

Those mods are pretty crappy. They use Oblivion's vanilla bow animation to simulate shooting a crossbow and throwing a spear. It looks cheesy as hell. That's not really putting the missing weapons back into Oblivion, and I'm glad the Morroblivion team chose not to use them.

@Meanwhilebacklash

I agree. I doubt they're going to take out jumping either. Like you said, there's still going to be jumping, it just won't be a skill you have to worry about.

I don't like using no-cd-cracks, but the few times I had to use them, they worked pretty good for me.

@ OP: I'm pretty sure we'll be able to play Skyrim in Offline mode.

I'm just telling you guys that I'm not going to start throwing all this crap out there what Skyrim can or cannot do until I play the game myself. Then I'll make a judgment and start praising it, or criticising it.

Well, I'd still recommend caution with No-CD cracks - you're downloading code from an unknown author. It would be remiss of us not to add the old caveat of always have anti-virus / anti-malware software installed and up-to-date, and if possible double check the file against some online scanners - there are online file scanners at Kasperksy's site and another at the VirusTotal website. Also, some countries allow for digital backups to be made, but don't allow people to circumvent copy protection. It's all very silly in my opinion but my advice is (as always), do your homework first.

Edit: As to how stable No-CD cracks are, it depends who wrote them and how good they were, as with all software. Also, the only way to test No-CD cracks are to release them into the wild, so I agree in part with what has been said above, though I'd also agree they can work well. Thank fully the use of Steam means that I do not need No-CD cracks now. My only reason to use them before was where WINE could not process the copy protection on a CD properly.

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personally, i don't use steam. like i said, i've been using no cd cracks to preserve my games for years with no problems. gamecopyworld still exists, and not using a good anti virus is just plain stupid.

 

oh, and jumping has been confirmed. jfgi before jumping (ha!) to conclusions.

not using a good anti virus is just plain stupid

Couldn't agree more... that said... once you've had to spend enough hours cleaning up machines where people clicked the wrong thing, thereby infected their machines with various interesting bits of malware, you realise that sensible and computer user don't necessarily go together...

My personal favourite was a bit of malware that installed itself as a driver. You couldn't see it in task manager for that reason. It also disabled windows updates and most of the useful tools in the system (command prompt for one). It was well sneaky - also redirected the browser to a blank page when you tried searching for fixes... It was fun cleaning up that one

I had my fair share of problems with software pretending to be anti-virus software. Those were real buggers to get rid of.

And my mod ideas can fit in Skyrim but will there be any added modding features to make up for the removed stuff? Oblivion has. And they better not remove the worldspaces thing.

Here's my reason why I don't like Bethesda:

Rage was supposed to come out for Mac and probably Linux, but when Bethesda bought out ID, guess what? You guessed it, Rage won't be coming to Mac or Linux anymore.

Why does the Mac get neglected? Boot Camp. If you really want to play Windows games on a Mac, install boot camp.

Not sure why Linux gets neglected though.

You really like dual-booting just to play a game?

Case in point: Portal. I can be working on my Mac, and then take a break, and quickly launch up Portal and be playing. The other option would be, yes, to dual-boot. So say I want to take a 15 minute break and play a level of Portal. I would have to turn everything off on my Mac side, and then boot into Windows just to play a game for like 15 minutes.

Hence the beauty of games on Mac or Linux. We're not on Windows for our own reasons.

And yes, I have bootcamp, just because of the CS. Oh, and now I have to pay for a Windows Install disc for a hundred some odd dollars.

But here's the point you're missing, Envy. I'm not mad at Bethesda for not making games for Mac, that's fine. But they're preventing someone who planned on making a game for Mac, and that's just effed up.

And to answer why Mac/Linux don't get games made for them: We're a niche market. Hell, look at how Bethesda and many others are treating the PC compared to game consoles. It's all about catering to the bigger market and making more money.

i tink it's safe to say that most users on this forum have the where-with-all to have a decent AV. i once had a virus that specifically blocked the malwarebytes website. fun!

 

How about all those people who dont have internet at all? How can they play Skyrim hmm?

 

quote

How about all those people who dont have internet at all? How can they play Skyrim hmm?

quote

 

 

yeah, those 2 guys are really gonna miss out...

'no-cd cracks' are not necessary for any game.  Try MagicISO Virtual cd/dvd Manager" .  It works great! It's also free.

 

Ohh .. I will never use steam (unless I'm ironing something)

 

Tell me this please: Can you buy a non-steam version of Skyrim and run it without internet, or will ALL versions of Skyrim need internet? If it is the former, fine. If it is the latter, one of my greatest joys in Bethesda will be taken from me....

Oh, and could you point me in the direction of where this news was given?

Thanks!

 

ps. I absolutly HATE steam, and I pride myeself in playing a game (oblivion) that doesn't work anything like steam. If Skyrim goes the way of steam I will be hugely disapointed...

 

This is what wikipedia had to say about steamworks: "On January 28, 2008, Valve released Steamworks, a free development and publishing suite (granted at Valve's discretion or with an Unreal Engine 3 license)^[33][34][34] that gives developers access to every component of Steam.^[35] Specifically, Steamworks provides means of games to integrate with the Steam client, including networking and player authentication tools for both server and peer-to-peer multiplayer games, matchmaking services, support for Steam community friends and groups, Steam statistics and achievements, integrated voice communications, and Steam Cloud support; the API also provides for anti-cheating devices and digital copy management.^[35] Steamworks can be combined with a standard Steam distribution agreement, the latter of which gives it advertising space in the Steam store but also provides Valve with a share of revenue; Audiosurf became the first game to be released in this way in February 2008.^[36] Several major games have since implemented Steamworks, includingAliens vs. Predator, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Fallout: New Vegas, Unreal Tournament 3, and Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II. Most games using the Steamworks API also opt for a presence in the Steam store. The only known exceptions (since Valve does not make announcements about such games) are NBA 2K9,^[37] and Supreme Commander 2 for Mac OS X.^[38]"

So it doesn't sound like Skyrim using steamworks means it will be forcing you to play Skyrim through steam.... right?

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@iceburg333 I got the info from Tesnexus, you can look it up yourself. But I'll be definitally using torrents for this game..

From what I read on Tes Nexus, I'm hoping it will just use parts of steam, but not the whole platform... what a disapointment. :/

Thanks robertneville for the insight!

I'm gonna get Skyrim and mod the hell out of it when it comes out.

Seeing that Fallout New Vegas was Steam-only, I wouldn't be surprised if Skyrim would be Steam-only. Once again, there are tutorials online that can help you to run Steam games offline. It worked perfectly with the first Half-Life.

for my copy of new vegas, i don't see anything steam related unless i decide to check achievements and such. i'm guessing skyrim will be much the same. some games use it for drm, but i don't think bethesda is going to.

and btw, magic iso and similar image mounting programs still require you to have a disc image on your computer to mount, and you still have to circumvent the copy-protection to make the image. a no-cd crack just makes it easier, and there are plenty of reputable places to find them. i mean, you should probably be scanning every file you DL anyway. i scanned morroblivion before running it...

and, i just gotta say, morroblivion is phenominal. really just awesome. i played the living daylights out of morrowind and oblivion, and this just makes both better. i really wish bethesda would take notice and make an official release. it could get all those who call oblivion "the first one" to play the game that really made a name for bethesda.

You're post comforts me meanwhilebacklash. Do you have to run steam to run vegas?

I bought the standerd oblivion DVD waaaay back, then to get shivering isles and knights of the nine I ended up buying a second disc: so I have two discs. However, I made an iso and never actually put the dvd in my computers anymore. It's less hassle, and I think it keeps the disc in better shape too, lol.

NoCD cracks can lead to illigal activites, but can't anything these days? I love that oblivion is so good and so not worried about people stealing their stuff, that people WANT to buy it (or a second cd of it) just to support it. I hope they don't lose that...

i think what people are getting confused by is the word "steam". colloquially, it means the service you install for downloading games distro through steam. that's not what bethesda means by saying it will use steamworks. steamworks, as mentioned on wikipedia, is a software api that devs can use for any number of things. i have never installed the program called "steam" on any computer i've owned. yet, i have played many games that use "steamworks", and even went ahead and blocked them in my firewall if they try to access the internet. so, mostly, this is just a bit of miscommunication.

and to those of you whining about how pc games aren't released on mac/linux, and complaining about dual-booting: if your computer takes longer than a minute to reboot, how do you expect to run skyrim? just dual boot. it has the added nerd cred we all crave.

no-cd cracks are only illegal if you don't own a legal copy of the game. and i prefer to have the disc space that an iso takes up, especially these days with full dual-layer dvds...

accidental double post. please delete.

meanwhilebacklash said:

"and to those of you whining about how pc games aren't released on mac/linux, and complaining about dual-booting: if your computer takes longer than a minute to reboot, how do you expect to run skyrim? just dual boot. it has the added nerd cred we all crave."

Huh? How does dual-booting have added nerd cred? I triple-booted on my Mac. Does that give me extra nerd points? I've dual/triple/quad booted for a while. There's nothing nerdy or difficult about, provided a good bootloader.

Also, I have an SSD, so my boot time is pretty dang fast, although Mac OS boots up faster than Windows 7.

I don't want to get into a Mac vs PC vs Linux debate, at least, not in this thread. We Mac and Linux users have chosen our OS for our reasons. To each his own.

Some game makers, like EA and Valve, have made their games for both platforms. So meanwhilebacklash, would you rather have game companies making games for just PC, or game makers making their games for PC and Mac and Linux? Personally, I would choose the latter, since everyone benefits.

But to answer your question, no I'm not complaining. I realize that Windows holds 95% of the computer gaming market, and I really don't expect that to change any time soon. I just think a perfect world would have games being made for both platforms, similar to how many console games are made between the xbox360 and the PS3. I think that's the same argument we're having. We've both chosen our platform for our own reasons. It would be awesome if we both could have the game we love on our own machine.

Now am I expecting Bethesda to make any games for Mac or Linux? Hell no. Was I expecting ID to make Rage and Doom 4 for Mac and Linux? Yes, and I and many others were really stoked. But now that Bethesda owns them, the promises that were once made to us are now broken.

I'll just use virtual clonedrive.

of course dual/triple, etc. booting gives you nerd points. and the fact that you say it's easy gives you even more nerd cred. the average person doesn't even know what dual-booting is. i agree, game makers should make games available for mac and linux. it's especially surprising that rage isn't being released for linux and mac.

@meanwhilebacklashes

Haha, all right man, if you say so Even though I try to deny my nerdism and tell people I'm not nerdy. I guess I'm not fooling anyone.

Nerd credit: given!

haha. It's so true though. Duel booting, modding, porting one game into another... all quality nerd credit.

I'm so glad that you cleared up the steamworks thing, meanwhilebacklash. Oh how that sooths my saddened heart, lol.

Robertneville: That's really dumb that Bethesda doesn't honor the previous promise. Agreed, in a perfect world I say all os's would be open source.

Let's all hope Skyrim turns out like we're dreaming it will..... :o 

@Meanwhilebacklash

You said: "i really wish bethesda would take notice and make an official release. it could get all those who call oblivion "the first one" to play the game that really made a name for bethesda."

Um well you're a bit off there, Arena-Daggerfall were the first and daggerfall was the first "open world" rpg. It was buggy as all get out with mesh gaps like chasms in the landscape but it was fantastic! You could levetate and fly, you could shoot arrows into a cliff face and climb them, NO dungeons were fixed and were randomly generated so that every time you played a new game the world changed. It was a fantastic game in it's time and was potentially set up for limitless play since each new game was basicly in a new world. Other than towns being placed in the same general location the terrain and dungeons were all randomly generated. Bethesda moved away from the limitless play idea and went to the fixed dungeon/terrain which was a shame but they always push the cutting edge of what's possible and undoubtably skyrim will too. I'm NOT hyped about it and am not even ordering it. I don't believe it will end up a better play than oblivion/morroblivion and it certainly won't be as mod friendly. The currently buggy CS is what they "say" they'll possibly put out a patch for to make it able to mod skyrim??? PLEASE!!!!  I'm sure skyrim will introduce some great new things like dynamic questing so that if a quest giver is dead someone else can give you the quest and the graphics will probably be phenominal as they say you can see rain splash and roofs actually stop rain on porches and such but in the long run I don't think it will be as long lived as both morrowind and oblivion just as the witcher 2 wasn't as good as witcher was other than the graphics and some other minor improvements.

But then that's all just my opinion and like they say opinions a like @$$holes everyone has one and none of them smell the same

Wait. They are not releasing a NEW CS?

Right now we're working with a Construction set. The new game will be using a Creation Set, won't it?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a new CS.

Yes they are going to release a "creation kit" with it ....... now. In the first anouncement interview I read way back when with Todd, which I can't find now he said they were "looking into" creating a patch for the current oblivion CS to be able to mod for skyrim. The reporter from that interview titled that paragraph in the article something like : " Bethesda snubs modding community".  It wasn't too much longer afterwards that Todd and Bethesda back pedaled and said they were working on a set of modding tools to be released WITH Skyrim. I can only imagine the amount of outraged posts, comments and emails they recieved after that interview was released. Now it's to be release shortly AFTER Skyrims release.

Bethesda says that only 10% of the gaming community is PC based and NOW they're trying to get Sony and Microsoft to let them set up modding for consoles. Well if bethesda feels that the PC based gaming is such a small slice of their sales why the reversal on the tools for modding? I never did like someone to tell me one thing and then do an about face a little while later, which is basically what Todd did. I also don't believe that RPG gaming is that low of a percentage for PC's. Console gaming for other types maybe, like the shooters and such but RPG? I don't see it. I have an xbox ...... lets see last time I turned it on ...... oh yeah back when fable 3 came out. It sucked so I turned it back off and it's collected dust since. The only reason I bought a console was for Fable because it was originally xbox only. I don't buy any game that isn't for the PC simply because I won't be able to mod it if it isn't But Fable and Fable 2 caught my attention enough that I broke down and got them and a console. Waste of time and money since now they're slowly releasing those titles for PC too lol. Hmm if consoles are the be-all-end-all why are they bothering to release those "console only" titles for PCs?

A quote from a list of reasons to be hyped for skyrim:

"14. Modding is fully supported, in the form of the Creation Kit.[/b] “We’re really big into the mods on the PC. Hopefully day and date with the game, but there might be some slack there.” Bethesda have also been influenced by a few mods for earlier games – for instance, bows have been tweaked as a result of finding an Oblivion balance mod that did ‘em better. (PC Only)"

Full List Here: http://boards.ign.com/ps3_lobby/b8269/201694325/p1/

Mod tools were supposed to come out with Black Ops. That's why I bought it. Then they said by may of this year, then by the end of may. Now, just 'soon'. That's why I hate valve and love Bethesda. They wouldn't do that to me.... would the? 

I hope not.

While we're complaining: It seemed to me that (while there seems to be good diversity within a race), there is very little diversity between races. The bretons look like the imperials look like the nords look like the bosmer. Did you guys notice that?

Why do you hate Valve? It's not their fault that Treyarch and Activision (Black Ops' developer and publisher, respectively) chose not to release modding tools. A lot of people blamed Valve for releasing buggy patches for FNV, but again, the fault lies with Obsidian, not Valve

I'm making this post to clear up some misconceptions concerning Steam.

First, I recommend that everyone reads this article. It has, IMO, the most comprehensive and informed analysis of piracy and DRM. As far as DRM systems go though, I think Steam is the least intrusive system available right now (short of stripping all DRM from the game, but as the above article points out, this is not a viable solution). All it requires is that you have an internet connection to activate the game on your account and have the client runnung while you run the game. Every other DRM system I know of places worse restrictions on you.

Also, Stardock releases their games without DRM. They did, however, released a "consumer report (PDF)" concerning DRM, which the article I linked to summarises:

 

Wrong! An internet connection is only required to activate the game. A few other features like download updates and a few petty features also require an internet connection but those are optional.

 

Fallout: New Vegas and Source games are all Steam exclusives yet there is nothing stopping them from being modded. So what are you going on about?

 

I heavily recommend you read the article I linked to and the Stardock consumer report exerpt below that link. Suffice to say, you have a very elitist attitude and the problem in this case is not Bethesda, it is you. As the article above shows, not using DRM is not an intelligent thing to do. I don't see why a game company should rely on trust when at least 80% of their "customers" acquired the game for free. How does trust help when many of those pirates then demand free technical support to the point that at least 50% of a game company's support costs are spent to help pirates? In other words, you're asking Bethesda to trust their "customers" while the vast majority of those same "customers" have no interest in rewarding Bethesda for their hard work. Nope, the lack of logic present in this argument is astounding.

 

Steam works perfectly well on my PC, even though it's CPU became outdated in 2006. I know of millions of people who can say the same thing. So clearly it is a problem on your end. Also, Valve has a tech support department; why not use it? Finally, I recommend you go to this page, download one of the guides and learn how to make your PC operate in an optimal manner.

 

I don't think there will be a "no-cd patch" for Skyrim because Steam(works) games, to the best of my knowledge, don't require the disc in your drive to work.

 

That will never happen. Ubisoft used a REAL online-only DRM system in 2010 and not only have they not been sued, they are still using that system for some of their current games. Anyway, these games belong to the entity that created them so they can do what they want with them. The only choice you have, as a consumer, is to not acquire their licenses. Ultimately, I think the future of PC gaming is something like OnLive.

 

That is because they use hardware-based DRM which is notoriously difficult to crack. PCs have none of that. In fact, Intel recently announced a hardware based DRM that can be used for streaming media which caused an outcry from consumers (most of the complaints were myths and logical fallacies though).

 

Perfectly correct. There is no evidence that you can't jump in Skyrim.

 

As far as I know, F:NV retail versions require that you have the Steam client installed and a Steam account. Again though, Steam does not require a persistantly online PC.

 

Agreed. Statistically, THE most common method of acquiring some sort of malware is by downloading pirated and cracked material.

 

Again, an internet connection is only required to activate the game. If someone can't even do that, too bad! Playing games is the least of their problems.

 

I wouldn't touch those virtual drive programs with a 3-metre pole. The two most popular (Daemon Tools and Alcohol 120%) are laced with rootkits and security vulnerabilities so I see no reason why that wouldn't be the same.

 

Why? What are you opposed to?

 

I'm not sure you're asking the right questions. As far as I know, all versions of Skyrim will require Steam but, again, an internet connection is only required to activate the game.

 

Bethesda didn't promise mac and linux versions of Rage. It was ID Software that made this promise before Bethesda Softworks acquired them.

 

Pirates are scum! They are the ones that cause all this DRM nonsense. They are to blame for game prices constantly going up. They are the ones causing the game development exodus to consoles. Piracy causes DRM, not the other way around and the article I linked to provides ample proof of this. So by pirating Skyrim, you are perpetuating the cycle until finally, Bethesda and others decide that PC gamers don't deserve games. Is this want you want?

Also, your arguments are illogical. Simply not acquiring the game has exactly the same impact on the game developer as pirating the game (probably more, actually). The only difference between piracy and not acquiring is that not acquiring causes the consumer to not have a game to play whereas piracy has no such restriction. Hence, the only logical argument for piracy is that people pirate because they want a "free lunch", nothing more; nothing less. This is why the "Steam causes piracy" argument is a myth.

And one more thing. According to the five golden rules:

You are not only talking about illegally obtaining software but actively promoting it. Moderaters, I expect you to ban these two if you haven't already.

You said: Quote: "I heavily recommend you read the article I linked to and the Stardock consumer report exerpt below that link. Suffice to say, you have a very elitist attitude and the problem in this case is not Bethesda, it is you. As the article above shows, not using DRM is not an intelligent thing to do. I don't see why a game company should rely on trust when at least 80% of their "customers" acquired the game for free. How does trust help when many of those pirates then demand free technical support to the point that at least 50% of a game company's support costs are spent to help pirates? In other words, you're asking Bethesda to trust their "customers" while the vast majority of those same "customers" have no interest in rewarding Bethesda for their hard work. Nope, the lack of logic present in this argument is astounding." End Quote

Can I as you where you're getting those percentages from? I VERY seriously doubt that 80% figure you tossed out there is accurate across the board here is a source quote for you:

 

The effects of copyright infringement on digital culture

[edit] Claims of severe adverse effects

According to studies conducted jointly by BSA and IDC, in 2009 losses from software piracy have exceeded $51 billion.^[5]

In addition, it has been claimed that reducing piracy rates would provide significant economical benefits:

Lowering software piracy by just 10 percentage points during the next four years would create nearly 500,000 new jobs and pump $140 billion into ailing economies.

— John Gantz, chief research officer at IDC^[6]

According to a BSA/IDC studies, the highest piracy rate comes from Armenia, with piracy rate of 93%. China and India are at No. 17 and No. 41 respectively , with 82% and 69% of recorded Software Piracy rates.^[7] The lowest piracy rate, according to survey, is observed in USA, at 20%.

It should be noted though, that methodology of these studies has been heavily criticised.

[edit] "Lesser evil" concept

By some of software producers , illegally copying software is seen as a "lesser evil" than actually buying or illegally copying a competitor's software. Jeff Raikes, a Microsoft executive, stated that "If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else." He also added ^[8] that "We understand that in the long run the fundamental asset is the installed base of people who are using our products. What you hope to do over time is convert them to licensing the software." In a different case, Microsoft has admitted that piracy of its Windows operating system has helped give it huge market share in China that will boost its revenues when these users "go legit." Bill Gates said, "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not."^[9] He has also said in reference to China:

As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.

—Bill Gates^[10]

[edit] Developing countries

As most commercially exploited proprietary software is developed in the United States and Europe, some critics in the developing countries of the world see this as an indirect technology transfer tax on their country preventing technological advancement and they use this type of argument when refusing to accept the copyright laws that are in force in most technologically advanced countries. This idea is often applied to patent laws as well. Traian Băsescu, the president of Romania, stated that "piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania."^[11]

The debate about software piracy acceptance in developing countries still continues. In 2011, the Business Software Alliance announces that 83 percent of software deployed on PCs in Africa has been pirated (excluding South Africa).^[12]

[edit] Moral issues

Surveys indicate that software piracy is generally regarded as an issue of low moral intensity.^[13]

[edit] Copyright and open source

Certain open source licenses (most notably GPL) substantially rely on existing copyright law. It is not possible to enforce GPL other than within the framework of existing copyright law.^[14][15] As GPL being strongly associated with word Copyleft, there is certain confusion about GPL and copyright, but despite somewhat confusing wording, copyleft is indeed one of copyright licensing schemas.

 

 

And from the article you linked to:

Piracy as a Proportion of Total Internet Usage

 

While the sites which provide links to pirated material are at the top of the web popularity list, there's evidence that Peer to Peer (P2P) traffic in particular is monstrously high as a proportion of total Internet traffic. This Report from Multimedia Intelligence shows that at present, P2P traffic makes up approximately 44% of all consumer Internet traffic globally (33.6% in North America). Similarly, this data from Ipoque also points to P2P traffic accounting for a large proportion of all Internet traffic, as much as 54% in places like Southern Europe. Both data sources point out that the vast majority of P2P data currently being shared is, as you'd expect, pirated material, with 70% of it being audio and video files (i.e. songs and movies). The data paints a fairly solid picture of the Internet being absolutely saturated with pirated material, where up to half of all Internet traffic can be composed of illegally shared files at any time.

Global Piracy Rates

 

Piracy is a worldwide phenomenon, however the rates of piracy are not the same around the world; in some countries piracy is much higher than in others, for a range of reasons. The Business Software Alliance (BSA) commissioned IDC to regularly measure PC software piracy rates around the world, and the latest results are published in the Global Piracy Software Study. The report shows the estimated piracy rate by region for 2006 and 2007:

 

Note that the results are for all PC software, including operating systems and business software, as well as games. Interestingly, although the piracy rate is falling slightly in most regions, the shift in piracy towards developing regions, and the sheer size of these regions, has resulted in an increase in the average global piracy rate from 35% to 38% between 2006 and 2007. As can be seen, the piracy rates in all countries are very high - the lowest is 21% in North America, and it averages from 30-60% in all other regions. The breakdown by individual country can be seen here. The report concludes that "...by the end of 2007, there were more than one billion PCs installed around the world; nearly half have pirated software on them."

 

It may be tempting to believe that piracy has always been on the rise, but that's not correct. The 2002 BSA Report shows that between 1996 and 1999, global piracy rates were actually declining every year:

 

Though the report itself fails to make any mention of the Internet, I believe it seems not uncoincidental that the reversal in the falling rate of piracy occurs at around the same time as Internet usage started to become increasingly more popular among the general population, particularly as a means of distributing illegal software.

 

And it should be noted that those figure include ALL pirated software, Movies, music, Operating systems etc etc and NOT just games. Your own article stated that 70% or more of the pirated software is Music and video software.

I live in a 3rd world country and yes, the situation here is that most people will either get a free lunch or no lunch at all ... either way you won't get any money but someone else might not have to skip the meal, so yea

Anyways lets keep this on topic ... Piracy is Wrong <period> and we are not going to have a second opinion about that on the forums ... but there is no reason for you to not just buy the game from steam and then use a crack to bypass any issues that you might have ... I've personally always used PowerISO for Morrowind and a NOCD-crack for Oblivion, and haven't  ever had a problem.

I don't have any experience with or knowledge of Steam ... but DRM's are usually quite easily cracked ... Assasin's Creed 2 (which originally required constant internet connectivity and even saved your games on an online server instead of on your HD) was cracked within a single month of its release ... and its possible to get tested and rated cracks (isohunt\pirate bay).

 

Bethesda didn't promise mac and linux versions of Rage. It was ID Software that made this promise before Bethesda Softworks acquired them." Ya. They don't honor the previeous promise. There isn't a loophole in what I said.

"I wouldn't touch those virtual drive programs with a 3-metre pole. The two most popular (Daemon Tools and Alcohol 120%) are laced with rootkits and security vulnerabilities so I see no reason why that wouldn't be the same." I use both magic Iso and Daemon tools and have never had a problem.

Speaking from personal experiance, nothing has made me want to pirate more than Valve / Steams chokehold on software. So in my world, while steam may not cause piracy, it sure does provide motivation to do so.

"... No links or talk of warez and illegally obtaining software. Doing so will result in a ban from the site.

"You are not only talking about illegally obtaining software but actively promoting it. Moderaters, I expect you to ban these two if you haven't already."

They are not actively promoting it, and they didn't post links to warez, or talk about how to obtain it. Cool down my brother. Using CD cracks on games you do have IS legal. We're not searching out ways to break the law here, we're just venting. Its okay man.

We have our opinions, and its okay that we have them and that we actively discuss them. You bring up some good points: steam being able to run in offline mode is one of them, but I still hate steam, and that's okay. You aren't going to change my mind, especially by insulting my logic.

Changing gears:

Let's all remember that we're on a site that's banned. We don't need to attack each other or give each other grief; we already get enough of that from the rest of the world. 

.... Ya, that last statement was supposed to sound cooler and more inspireing than it did. Oh well.