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lukkar
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[Concepts] Deadric interiors [Needing 3D Artists to implement]

Ok, I took this massive commission. This is how assets looked in CK in MW. This is link to pics

Well, I review most shrines interiors in MW, and I have to admit it works really well for a such small amount of assets. Especially when it is combined with exterior's ones. Despite even of amount of assets ,deadric architecture is designed to create effective workflow for creating 3d models. Just some smaller elements creating bigger ones and quite small quantity of textures. I just created the smallest common. Also it helps very to keep everything consistent in look.

Also I looked at ESO examples

These ruins are much less decorative and more neglected than MW's ones. But they somehow seems to me more editable (more level designing opportunities) than old one. Rumble, rocks, dirt this what could be useful for our interiors. And of course they are more spacious but this is quite obvious design choice for MMORPG which we wont fallow.

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Deadric shines suppose to be as old as Velothi towers and velothi strongholds, so they should be damaged in similar degree to give impression to player that they all are some leftovers from some ancient civilization. In much more way than vanilla one. Not only exterior parts but inner too.

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We will use Rav ideas for textures, close to original but with own unique flavor.

Well, I used them in my concepts too to not duplicate work. Hmm maybe use cavity pattern for roof too?

This is first part of blocks to build

The same sizes and footprints as vanilla. Maybe with exception of corridors which will be slightly higher than MW's (I checked in CK if we can do that)

Also after creating original assets there will be derivatives for damaged

Part 2 with other things to fill barren space

3.a b. c. will have purely decorative functions. They could have destroyed from too. But I don't think it is so necessary.

5.a is pillar inspirited by eso

Also I have new seamless pattern for floor, ordinary bricks could be outside

Just like in original work we can use many enviro assets inside. landsides, rocks, ground etc. big playground to have fun.

Also I thought it would be nice to include one more furniture asset for daedric. I mean bookshelf (I fit design to (I don't remember name) design)

And bonus pattern to give another visual link between velothi strongholds and shrines

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For now it's all. I will create some scenes for them like in my kwama mines example and some special asset for Sheogorad statue. Feel free to comment and critique. If you are modeler, level designer, lore master your feedback will be very welcomed also. I'm just aiming for effect better than eso and original MW. Let make Beth jealous.

Additional unused pattern

Edited by: grumpycat on 02/05/2016 - 15:30
grumpycat
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Incredible.

Incredible.

I personally claimed the level design of the Malacath Shrines and I was wondering how the Daedric symbols could be incorporated into the designs?

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Nice shape/texture ideas you

Nice shape/texture ideas you got there. Even if i know you did not make the "damaged" items, i regret the lack of the crumbling feel daedric shrines had. From what i've seen while playing Morrowind, or the references you posted about TESO, the common thing of Daedric architecture is that it looks about to fall, and that it's almost on purpose.
I know, it's a ruin, it's supposed to be falling into pieces. 
But from what I see from the TESO screenshot, or even here

it's been made in a fucked way, without reason. Some spikes are enormous, other ones are tiny, all the walls are slated, twisted, warped.
I know it's hard to make chaos into a modular tileset, but (i hope a lore-scholar could confirm), Daedric shrines were supposed to be built by weird (mad?) guys. Daedric architecture sure has been made by guys from the same era as ancient Velothis, who used the same stones, and the same kind on masonry. But they had seen the other world, a bit like in The Call of Cthulhu.
Concrete, for instance, can be used for different shapes than plain cubes. 


I don't know if that shape is relevant, but it kinda gives the feeling of something that's about to fall.
This shot from the original game really gives the feeling, thanks to the weird UV sizes, that some objects that are close are, in fact, far.


Maybe exploring daedric architecture in terms of volumes instead of 2d sheets could be help you to see things from a literal new angle.

On the sheet "How assets could work together", the design really looks straight and angular, with regular volumes. What if the stairs were completely twisted, or gave the impression to be totally wrong?
I'm not talking about Escher stuff, but more about things like this.

This staircase could go straight to its aim, but for whatever reason, the builder said "Today, it'll go right. I hope my mind doesnt make me go downwards tomorrow, it'd be a complete loss of time". That might be a lead for daedric visual development.

Other refs here :
http://www.rudolfsteinerweb.com/galleries/Second_Goetheanum/...

You could (I don't know how, it's your task ) give the impression of paths leading to nowhere, doors being too small for a person to go through, just next to a hallway wide enough to let an elephant pass.


Maybe I'm going to far, but Daedric architecture is supposed to be somehow alien, and going crazy (with veeeeeeeeery rough drawings) could help people understand your point of view, and explore all of this together.

A few other ideas (not all coherent)












Phew!

That took me ages to write. 

Sorry, and thanks for reading/watching.

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I love that sheet of

I love that sheet of references Lukkar, but for the actual tileset pieces - as Nexos pointed out, I hope there are ways to keep it modular while warped and slated ;) My fan theory is that these shrines were built straight, but then the time and space around them got warped because of the dimensional shift that is opened at every single one of them (allowing Daedra to assume form around it).It'd be great if both interiors and exteriors reflected that, somewhat impossible, surreal architecture. For reference take a look at how it looks when you shift dimensions to the Spectral Realm in Soul Reaver games (all 3 had that), as well as the scenography in the "Cabinet of dr. Caligari".

lukkar
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grumpycat wrote:

grumpycat wrote:

I was wondering how the Daedric symbols could be incorporated into the designs?

I see it as separate asset which you add everywhere where you want. Adding it to architecture will create too many assets.

Nexos wrote:

I know it's hard to make chaos into a modular tileset, but (i hope a lore-scholar could confirm), Daedric shrines were supposed to be built by weird (mad?) guys. Daedric architecture sure has been made by guys from the same era as ancient Velothis, who used the same stones, and the same kind on masonry. But they had seen the other world, a bit like in The Call of Cthulhu.

Yeah I know what you mean, it is pretty hard to create sth which is modular and looks chaotic in the same way, also it need to be handy for level designer, we have a lot of shrines, so too much tiny pieces could not work.

I think there is some solution but it will need running script in CK. If there is possibility to put whole group of objects in CK. for example when wall is divided on 7 parts (roof (even that can be divided to 3), connector, floor, wall part 1, wall part 2, wall part 3)

For each place you can add 6 types so ti is 6^3 solutions.

If you can add additional types for connectors, for example 2. It is 6^3·2^2

If you add additional types for roofs for example 3 for each place. It will be 6^3·2^2·3^3

It will be 23328 solutions for one side for both it will be 544 195 584. So it is 544 195 584 solutions for one corridor. Theoretically each corridor/wall in game could be unique. So the final result will be very organic.

Doing this manually will be pure madness, but if there will be script which can replace asset by another in random order it could work. The only thing which will be crucial is to have the same perfect seams/edges for all assets.

With the same philosophy roofs could be done in similar way, creating a astonish amount of solutions.

If there will be possibility like: if in place01 is a, then in place02 is b and c d e f fits with edges/seams to b, it would be even better.

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There is also another way, a bit simpler. Creating additional assets which will be just be glued to existing walls. I don't thing it would be too heavy for the scene.

Yeah, I will try to change several things (like stairs, make walls more weird), but now I'm a bit busy.

@Drago

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Looks amazing. Like, really

Looks amazing. Like, really really amazing.

Some random thoughts: the more "chaos" inside a daedric dungeon, the more mindf*ck for the player - like the imposing spikes from the roof. Imagine a narrow corridor leading to a big hall with a statue of Mehrunes Dagon, but with the roof in the corridor gradually coming closer and closer to the floor, and the spikes coming just above your head, giving you the feeling "I'm in trouble! This guy means business!". A labyrinth where you wander for a long time could be just as menacing for a dungeon related to Mephala (even though she's a "good" Daedric prince in MW). And so on.

Something that I would love to see is vertically curved stairways. For example, a stairway going downwards, beginning normally, then is curved outwards and causing you to fall down in an abyss or a shaft to another area. Or a one which is curved inwards, and you can start climbing normally, but you cannot continue. Here's a very quick sketch of what I mean:

Perhaps this is a very retarded idea. However, i suppose these could be also useful for rubble pieces, or maybe even custom floors if scaled back. Some impossible geometry would look lovely from high above or below, but I'm not sure if that's possible with assets.

Just my 0.02$

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Not sure if this thing (with

Not sure if this thing (with more gravitation, than geometry actually) is possible to realize.
Gravitation is pretty hard-coded, i presume.
Impossible geometry is really impossible to show, except if it will be on unreachable background, viewable from same point.

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Some of them are initial

Some of them are initial ideas, so some things could be changed.

Ok this is list of shrines in game

Each type of shrines (depends on deadra) will have some unique features. But for now updated common base.

Well, creating chaotic set is not easy thing, so I tried go to more "organic" style. So the main idea is to avoid 90° as much as it is possible and give "wavy" feel of corridors. Just by playing with sizes and depth of decorations, some sides could even have 4 partitions other 3, and of course there will twice amount of assets but it will be just mirrored examples. The we will have some sense of movement here. So had one type of corridor in MW. In Skywind it will be at least four (two types of decorations of both sides and mirrored versions)

The same goes with halls, it will give much more place for creativity for level designers.

c. is "connection" between roof and sides of asset hall (the same bricks as in MW) In upper right corner you see "movement" of wave. Probably it will give even stronger effect during running through halls.

A. B. are just addons to give some more freedom. You can stick them anywhere

To give bigger freedom in bigger halls roofs will have thicker base, then it is possibility to set them on different height next to each others. Also some skylights will be nice too (remember they could appear only in upper parts of dungeons)

Columns a bit similar to MW, but created prefabricates before could give higher variety. Look at 8.a. 8b. 8c. 8d. in part 1

Also original inner stairs are a bit different now. Two versions. I discover one optical illusion, when stairs 7.a are one above other, the bottom one seems to be smaller than upper one (or it is only me).

When it comes to stairs, it will be one narrowness inside to give impression of narrowing of steps.

So these are general ideas for general assets. Now it is time for special directions for special shrines.

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Sheogorath

and nice movie about him

So the architecture should represent his mind and features about him. You should notice it at first glance even before entering shrines

Sheogorath shrines will be even much more chaotic than ordinary ones, building with weird angles, even some buildings set upside down, with no logic where sth ends and where sth begging.

Also weird sizes of entry doors could be interesting

Each statue also could have indicator of state of Sheogorath's mind. The upper one is mania, the bottom one is dementia. Maybe even shattered glass doesn't have to be on some plane but hanged several pieces.

Each shrine could have some own illusion (we have 9). Forced increased perspective is just creating one asset from many corridors and deforming it.

In the right upper corner is the same idea but representing the same size of objects at first glance, but in reality quite different.

In the left bottom example we use that technique too to give impression that arcs in room are the same size.

In the right bottom example is Ames room which could be created only in one specific place how to construct link1 link2. One curiosity is was heavily used in LOTR Trilogy.

So we have 4 shrines assigned

Not only optical tricks could be used but also, method of level design.

One interior of shrine could be whole placed upside down. Even exterior buildings could be upside down. To give some easier access to it, first chambers could be flooded, a way to others it will be needed levitation.

The other idea is famous Escher's room which need only two additional assets like flat wall and cube. And how it looked in movie Labyrinth. Of course we will not create local gravity and we will rid off corridors inside.Intead of that will be just doormarkes leading to weird destination and you will have to find out what to do.

Other idea is set doormarkers in some big interiors in that when it will be quite unintuitive to normal navigate. You will go through exterior door to interior but going back this door it will move you somewhere else. Of course it could not be oversued and it can't be in too big interior. Some indicators near particular doors would be nice.

So we have 7 assigned and 2 left

Other shrine could have asset 4. (connector) with visual tricks like

http://illusionoftheyear.com/2008/rolling-eyes-on-a-hollow-mask/

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_image

and it has be matched much more careful than in my example, well it will work with bump map but maybe it will work with normal map also.

So one left

Illusions could be incorporated with some addons, placed on walls or floors, you don't have to play only with diffuse but you can play with normal map also.

list

cafe wall illusion
coffer illusion
Poggendorff illusion
Sander illusion
Visual tilt effects
illusory image motion during smooth eye movement
Pinna's illusory

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Now it's time for Mehrunes Dagon

nice movie and link to wiki

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Molag Bal

Movie and link to lore

We can use Vita's lavafalls

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Malacath

Movie and link to lore

Link to mod

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And we have two shrines not assigned

Magas Volar

and Anudnabia this one can be quite ordinary, but in our situaton ordinary is extordinay

Not have any particular ideas, I doubt even if there is any need.

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So that's all guys, feel free to comment.

links to galleries link1 link2 link3 (updated)

 

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@lukkar: your infografic are

@lukkar: your infografic are great thing.

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@alysander

Thanks

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ThankOk small update in previous post, I made a little tweak that all of them would have some unique entrance

Idea for unique entrance for Molag Bal

and how to create "Cabinet of dr. Caligari" style

Quite sloppy when you want to create some special room (Probably Sheogorath) but better alternative than creative unique assets.

It will quite well cooperate with these above.

Also Squally, Praefect, Cresty, Grumpy anyone else who will do them, if sth seems to you unclear you can ask. Well now is time to organize it a bit.

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Ok, new things mostly to done

Ok, new things mostly done to check new workflow. I updated some stuff also. To be sure use more recent files from drive.

Mehrunes Dagon

Levitation could be blocked by debris, roots, narrowings.

Holes in floor. Good thing to create level design in less obvious way.

Lack of floor in some places, wg landsides and recolored examples could be used.

random doodle

Mehrunes Dagon

Proposition for special forge. You know orcs love this stuff. I'm curious how it will be interpreted by level designers ;)

Of course "wavy patterns" are not drew due to that they are really time consuming to make them in perspective.

Molag Bal

Ideas for creating "inner" structures in monumental areas.

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I noticed that my floor pattern doesn't work properly. It is better to use vanilla one (It is also much easier to create destroyed floor).

Pattern have to be symmetrical and asymmetrical in the same time, so better is old solution.

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I absolutely LOVE the sense

I absolutely LOVE the sense of enormous scale your concepts give off Lukkar!