[WIP] Lighthouse | Morroblivion

I have been tasked with recreating the lighthouse from Seyda Neen. This is a fairly extreme redesign, both to bring the building into line with other Imperial architecture and to ensure that the thing actually looks like a lighthouse this time.

Here's a screen of the basic structure, sans the light, upper platforms, and some details.

The plan for Skywind is to spread the lighthouses around Vvardenfell a bit. On that note, there will be four versions: pristine (sort of), dilapidated (Seyda Neen), overgrown (Telvanni areas) and destroyed.

Process Log

Pristine Lighthouse: 50%
Dilapidated Lighthouse (Seyda Neen): 0%
Vine Overgrown Lighthouse: 0%
Destroyed Lighthouse: 0%

Last edited by Taerkalith on 28 Oct 2015 - 09:12.

I'm sorry to say this because

I'm sorry to say this because the model looks great, but the original Seyda Neen lighthouse was just too iconic to get rid of. It was the landmark of the area that is featured in a lot of artwork, and is (other than the census office) a major focal point in the area. Searching Seyda Neen on google seems to auto-fill 'lighthouse' as well.

[External image]

So I'm just hoping that Seyda Neen can get one based on the original, while that model could be used in a different Imperial settlement.

not just 'Dilapidated' - more

i think about main design of Seyda Neen lighthouse : stone and style can be close to Dunmer Strongholds.
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EDIT: obviously somebody dont like this proposition. Would be more nice to use words and sentences to mark things you dont like.

well if 20 does the stairs

well if 20 does the stairs from top door up to top fire pit, and uses the same style, it will be fine.

Alright, so I may have

Alright, so I may have sounded a little destructive in my last post, but I have an idea that could incorporate both designs. The new lighthouse would be perfect to serve as an Excise coast guard station up or down the coast from Seyda Neen (either closer to Ebonheart, or further up where smugglers are in the Bitter Coast). These stations, with Excise Cutters docked nearby, help to patrol the coast for smugglers of Dwemer Artifcacts, Moon Sugar/Skooma, and unlicensed Ebony.

Some info and lore

From dialog in Morrowind:

"The western coast of Vvardenfell from Seyda Neen north to Gnaar Mok is called the Bitter Coast. The salt marshes and humid swamps of this region are uninhabited, with the only settlements found at the good harbors of Gnaar Mok, Hla Oad, and Seyda Neen. Also called the Smuggler's Coast, the region's secluded coves and islands provide refuge for criminal trade, and the frequent rain and fog hides small boats from Excise cutters."

So there was mention of Excise Cutters that search for smugglers along the coast, despite these not appearing ingame. As the name implies, these would likely be managed under the excise branch of the Census and Excise office. Now, in the real world, the HM Customs and Excise had a Waterguard branch to handle excise revenue from incoming ships. This waterguard was initially formed as the 'preventative waterguard', based out of watch houses along the coast with boat crews that patrolled in cutters to combat smuggling. Though at this point it was under admiralty, it was eventually absorbed into the Customs and Excise when the latter was formed. So the idea is that stations with lighthouses could be found along the coast, attempting to find smugglers for the Excise branch of the Imperial office.

As a followup to my last post

As a followup to my last post, I've done some research regarding Seyda Neen, and the lighthouse there is not imperial. When comparing the stonework and roof shingles to that of the old Dunmer strongholds, there is a very close and consistent match. As implied by the Dunmeri name, the Imperials did not build Seyda Neen, but colonized it, and there is a big difference there. When arriving at Seyda Neen about 15 years prior to the start of the game, the Imperial settlers would have been greeted with a scene of the ancient lighthouse surrounded by the Dunmeri shacks of the settlement. The colonizers then established buildings of their own, including the Census and Excise office at the docks. The lighthouse is unstable because it is old, very old. It is an impressive feat for it to remain standing for so long at the coast of the salt marsh. This is not uncommon for Imperials to colonize in such a way while leaving some of the old intact, a notable example of such being the Hunding statue at the old seawall of Port Hunding at Stros M'kai. I love the imperial lighthouse, my only issue is regarding placement. If it could be closer to Ebonheart, it could serve as an important post for the Excise office's Coast Guard to prevent smuggling from occurring at the city. This would, however, require that the Dunmer Stronghold-esque one be restored to Seyda Neen as well. Perhaps some small chunks of Stronghold rubble could be partially exposed in the area around Seyda Neen too.

I've been looking around for

I've been looking around for a bit, but couldn't find anything to support what you're saying Ice. Do you have a source ?

so is it refers to era of

so is it refers to era of Dunmer Strongholds?
I was groundlessly/intuitive sure that is.
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Would be nice to implement more "ancient" buildings to inhabited cities.
There are free ancient buildings around your settlement. Your actions?
Even if there is combatants people will try to use/inhabit them.
This refers not only to Dunmer Strongholds buildings, but to Daedric and Dwemer ones too.
Would be good to see some examples in Dagon Fel or Ald Velothi.

Mace wrote:

Mace
I've been looking around for a bit, but couldn't find anything to support what you're saying Ice. Do you have a source ?

"With my letter from the Empress in hand, this time I would have the full cooperation of the Imperial authorities. No more need to worry about attacks from superstitious locals. But where should I look next? The ruins at Kemel-Ze were the obvious choice. Unlike Raled-Makai, getting to the ruins would not be a problem. Also known as the "Cliff City", Kemel-Ze lies on the mainland side of the Vvardenfel Rift, sprawling down the sheer coastal cliff. Travelers from the east coast of Vvardenfel often visit the site by boat, and it can also be reached overland from the nearby villages without undue hardship. Once my expedition had assembled in Seyda Neen..."

-Ruins of Kemel-Ze

The book, which also appeared in Morrowind (and all later games, including ESO) directly states that Seyda Neen existed at the same time that there was an empress, which was not the case at the time, as the Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition states that Empress Caula Voria died fifty years prior ("While the Emperor chose not to remarry following the Empress's death more than fifty years ago"). That, combined with its appearance in ESO, places Seyda Neen back to at least as early as the middle Second Era (Although it could be argued that ESO's inclusion is contradictory due to the fact that the province wasn't in the Empire yet, thus placing it still long before Vvardenfell's colonization by Imperials, in the earlier days of the Septim Empire). The connection to the strongholds are visual, evidenced by the stonework and roof shingles on the vanilla textures. UESP also makes the distinction that Seyda Neen is imperial-owned, but not necessarily of Imperial origins, rather that it was acquired, which is heavily suggested by the Dunmeri name, and by the fact that at the time that Morrowind establishes it was built, settlements were neutral through the temple, rather than any of the great houses or foreign settlements. To even stay in Seyda Neen to venture to Kemel-Ze, a letter from the Empress herself was necessary to avoid being attacked by 'superstitious locals', referring to the agreement that Imperial settlements could not be constructed at the time on Vvardenfell.

I had hoped to avoid turning

I had hoped to avoid turning this topic into a giant old vs. new free-for-all, or that the recent blog post would better convey the rationale for redesign, but since this is still coming up I might as well weigh in.

First of all, there is little lore for Seyda Neen in general, and none for the lighthouse in particular, outside of fan interpretations (which, to frank, tend to constitute much of the "lore" that is thrown around). Believe me, I spent enough time looking. The town name means "true passage" in Dunmeri, a nod to it's use as a landing point. So it may have had a lighthouse at some point. However, all signs in the game itself suggest that it reverted to a simple fishing village before the Imperials revitalized it. This makes sense, because prior to the events of the game there was little traffic between Vvardenfell and the mainland, other than Dunmer on pilgrimages. If the pilgrims landed at Seyda Neen, it would have become a thriving port town due to economic forces alone.

Now, I stated in the blog that an old lighthouse would have been destroyed by the elements long before the coming of the Imperials. For proof of why this would likely be the case, look at other ancient structures on the Bitter Coast. There are three Daederic shrines, all of which have portions submerged. Boethiah's shrine is on the ocean floor. These are places that contain some measure of supernatural power, and even they succumbed to the swamp. The one Dwemer ruin is also starting to be swallowed by the swamp, and they were the greatest builders in the history of the Elder Scrolls. That leaves Hlormaren. Not only does this ancient stronghold occupy one of the highest points in the swamp, it is built in a pyramid shape, which history has taught us is very durable.

As a final point, let us assume, despite the odds, there was an old, partially ruined lighthouse in Seyda Neen when the Imperials arrived. They would never use it in a dilapidated state, not when it was needed for their coastal operations. This would require rebuilding. This is actually reflected in the redesign, with its use of stone blocks and slabs not found elsewhere in Imperial architecture. I am also going to add a slate roof for the light, in accordance with the original. However, the need to rebuild would mean that the Imperials would integrate the existing structure with their own architectural style.

What I can say, I see it just

What I can say, I see it just as icon building which most people associate with this look. So for me most important is iconic look. Then I agree with Rav. Btw. most people even don't know lore/story behind this.

well if 20 does the stairs from top door up to top fire pit, and uses the same style, it will be fine.

I think this model fits very well in Ebonheart, much more than Seyda Neen IMHO.

I am also going to add a slate roof for the light, in accordance with the original.

But I will wait what newer version will be.

All I'd change from original

All I'd change from original is change that damn external staircase from stone to wood... Who the hell would build that out of stone? It'd collapse immediately.

The one thing I really liked

The one thing I really liked about Morrowind when I first played it back in '03 was the fact that architecture was unique. The bandits in the caves all had names, and everything was something, and everyone was someone. Vvardenfel was only opened to outlanders a couple decades prior to the time in the game, and bringing in a generic looking structure into an environment as mysterious and foreign as the Bitter Coast would look out of place in my own opinion. The dilapidated, cobbled together with whatever style in the original game fit in well with its surroundings.

I agree with Dragomir if

I agree with Dragomir if anything that's the only thing I would care to change. Also most of what you said is true Dr.G, it would look out of place in the surrounding area. Also for my opinion the Lighthouse should remain as close as it's appearance in Morrowind to preserve nostalgia and not change it based solely on what it should be as if that was true then Bethesda would have made it like the new appearance. I for one loved the old lighthouse despite it's flaws and even sometimes called it home in Seyda Neen. It's like having a puppy with mental or physical problems and giving it away to get a better one because you don't like it, so I say just revamp the old look instead of changing it entirely, and add the new one somewhere else.

We've already established

We've already established that this is what the light house will look like. If someone turns up to model something closer to the old one, we might consider using that instead and move this one elsewhere. However, Twenty has established reason - both here, and in the blog - why this is more than an acceptable model of the Seyda Neen Light House.

Main Balmora-associated port

Main Balmora-associated port can be really bigger and richer,
but such old architecture element is also a recognisable face of the town.
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IMHO it must be more dunmer-style than imperial, because it's mainly old dunmer port.
Drago's proposition can made view of this tower less rusty.

You know, I'm not above

You know, I'm not above compromising and bringing in more ancient Dunmeri elements. For example, using stronghold stone textures, or replacing the Imperial-style windows with stronghold-style windows. I've already stated by intention to make the light housing pretty much the same, and I quite like the idea of a combined Imperial and ancient Dunmer lighthouse, indicating that the former used some existing materials for reconstruction. However, I get the feeling that the people who want the old lighthouse won't be satisfied with anything less than a near 1:1 recreation, regardless of compromises or reasoned arguments.

I think it looks awesome :)

twentyenginerunner wrote

I'm sorry to re-open an old wound here, but literally a week after you all had this discussion, Michael Kirkbride himself provided a comment on the origin of the Seyda Neen lighthouse (from which the town takes its name, it would seem) and I thought you might want to see it. I don't feel strongly about it, but it's an interesting tidbit.

Early concept art shows House Hlaalu with gems in their foreheads. These gems were purportedly part of the glass in the construction of the Seyda Neen. The Seyda Neen was the flagship of a fleet that Hlaalu sent to sea at the behest of a Saint, "to see the face of Veloth". The mariners on this voyage would send back for the rest of their House when they had found whatever this "face" was.

But an unnatural storm destroyed the fleet, the jetsam and flotsam coming back to the shore. The Hlaalu used this to construct the Lighthouse, so that any of their countrymer that may have survived the storm could find their way back. House nobles embedded their flagship's glass in their foreheads, because Morrowind.

Dead thread. Lighthouse

Dead thread. Lighthouse design for seyda neen is unrelated to this thread and has been finished. Locking so this doesn't show up in active threads anymore. Model is finished. It looks great.