The Stinkin' Archcanon

Please, for the love of Almsivi, stop using console commands if you run across any bugs or what you think are bugs. The quest  didn't update because it was probably at that stage already for whatever reason. If that was the case the last quest update was probably about the archcanon being in his private quarters and so forth.

You had to talk to Saryoni about "Temple's Doctrine", if you killed any Ordinators you will have the option to apologize. If you've used console commands in the main quest in the past, then no wonder you're not getting the right topics. Quests include much more than just a few Quest Stages that you can set in the console.

Please, for the love of Almsivi, stop using console commands if you run across any bugs or what you think are bugs.

A thousand times this. We need a sticky post about bugreporting.

On topic: sometimes you need to talk to NPC about several different topics for the quest to proceed. This may not always be obvious, because Oblivion doesn't have dialogue hyperlinks like Morrowind had, so you can miss a new topic.

Another possibility is that you didn't have enough disposition. I seem to remember that some dialogue with Archcanon is disposition based.

He missed an Update from Nabani Maesa where it Activates the 6 and 7  to send you  to see the Archcanon.

Go back to when you Talked to Nabani Maesa ( I Have Become Hortator of the 3 Great Houses and been Named Nerevarine  by the 4 Ashlander Tribes )

If you do not have a Quest Update to Complete the 4,,5 Trials you have missed a Dialog topic or a Stage, It  takes Completion of the 4..5 Trials to Activate the 6,,7  Trials.

What was his exact response when you clicked on the Temples doctrine topic? This is very important and helps us fix this possible bug.

So in the Quest "The Fourth and Fifth Trials" you never got this quest update: "I have fulfilled both the fourth and fifth trials."?

[begin short rant]

I know how hard it is to make a mod work properly and be all things to all people. Morroblivion is a huge mod and the builders should be praised for making it work as well as it does. Everyone really appreciates their work.

I've been thru the "fourth trial" and "fifth trial" several times with older versions of morroblivion and did not see this issue until ver. 63.  I think that in trying to make the game more interesting and to make the player 'think' more, the quest makers have got themselves into a never ending cycle of complaints and 'bug' fixes. Some of the 'bugs' are real, some are not, but when there are no 'help messages' to guide the player you should expect many more questions and 'problems' than normal.

I use the console as needed to get past these glitches and omissions after trying to describe a potential problem and getting no valid answer. Sometimes I fix the issue myself and offer a temporary fix, but mostly I just ignore them and wait for the next 'updated' version.

The Shivering Isles requirement is one that I have problems with. Using textures from that mod is not necessary since they are not very different from comparable Oblivion textures. The requirement to have Shivering Isles installed just to get a few textures in my opinion doesn't make sense. It does make the game load a lot of stuf that is not needed to play Morroblivon tho.

I think there should be some help screens pop up to guide the player (the same way Oblivion's main quest works).  I believe this would eliminate a lot of the confusion and misinterpretation of what's a quest error and what's 'making the player think'. Most players don't want to think. They just want to play the game.

qwerty .. I know it's your mod and you can make it into whatever you want, but these folks really need some guidance.

[/begin short rant]

Check in Completed Quest Log make shore you Have the 3 Houses Quest Completed Telvanni Hortator\Redoran Hortator\Hlaalu Hortator and the Same with the 4 Tribes Completed for Nerevarine of Each Tribe.

@steph Shivering Isles is integrated into the Oblivion.esm, everyone who edits anything in Morroblivion using this version of the esm makes it dependent on it. Also, Shivering Isles adds a lot more than just the Shivering Isles Worldspace, things like new script functions etc. The esp is simply there to load the bsa file.

Are you saying you've come across the same bug as Billyro in the latest version? What kind of help screens do you have in mind? I think the quest updates and the NPCs dialogues are quite helpful. Together with protocolled dialogues and Quest markers it's hard to miss something, really.

@Billyro: If you haven't received that quest update it means one or more of the Hortator and Ashland Tribe quests haven't been fully completed. Are there any uncompleted quests in your journal regarding these?

Brainslasher

@steph Shivering Isles is integrated into the Oblivion.esm, everyone who edits anything in Morroblivion using this version of the esm makes it dependent on it. Also, Shivering Isles adds a lot more than just the Shivering Isles Worldspace, things like new script functions etc. The esp is simply there to load the bsa file.

I know it's integrated.  Problem is, if you don't have shivering isles installed (and I don't) you get several missing textures.  I don't like shivering isles, so I don't use it. It's just one less thing my game needs to load. There are several Oblivion textures already there that I use to replace the shivering isles textures. Also, I have several esps I use to eliminate the shivering isles changes.
 

BrainslasherAre you saying you've come across the same bug as Billyro in the latest version? What kind of help screens do you have in mind? I think the quest updates and the NPCs dialogues are quite helpful. Together with protocolled dialogues and Quest markers it's hard to miss something, really.

Quest markers seem to be hit and miss.  Some quests have them, some don't. 

[help screens] The Oblivion startup dungeon quest and the main quest and most others offer a screen that help you find the next thing you need to do to advance the quest. EX; "You should tell whoever about whatever and/or give the questthing to someone'  (Please note that this not a real message from oblivion. It's just an example).[/quote]

When you require the player to look for the right topic to click on before advancing, it sometimes causes confusion and bug reports that may or may not be real.

<a href="http://tesrenewal.com/users/qwertyasdfgh" title="View user profile.">qwertyasdfgh</a>On topic: sometimes you need to talk to NPC about several different topics for the quest to proceed. This may not always be obvious, because Oblivion doesn't have dialogue hyperlinks like Morrowind had, so you can miss a new topic.

Another possibility is that you didn't have enough disposition. I seem to remember that some dialogue with Archcanon is disposition based.

and..sometimes you need to be an insanely high level to advance or even see a topic, or your speed and/or agility is not high enough, or your endurance is not set high enough, or you haven't talked to the right person yet, or clicked an obscure topic, or maybe it's not the second Tuesday this week ... [External image]

I think most of the 'bug' issues are caused by trying to design things so that the player needs to actually 'think'. They're not real bugs, player just didn't click the right thingie yet. [External image]

Some of the 'bugs' are caused by one mod stepping on another or a mod that doesn't play nice with the other mods. Sometimes a load order change fixes this but not always.

If you have the 3 Hortator Completed in your Quest and the 4 Nerevarine Tribe Quest in your Completed, and nothing comes From Nabani try Reading the Notice from The Archcanon and the Public Notice Athyn Sarethi gay you the then stand there and see if Quest Updates the 4,,5 trails, if it does Nabani will have Listing for 6,,7 trails now.

Just played it had not read Archcanon note nothing would update till i read the note and Notice.

I know it's integrated. Problem is, if you don't have shivering isles installed (and I don't) you get several missing textures. I don't like shivering isles, so I don't use it. It's just one less thing my game needs to load. There are several Oblivion textures already there that I use to replace the shivering isles textures. Also, I have several esps I use to eliminate the shivering isles changes.

Shivering Isles requirement means MORE than just some textures - without it several scripts, including teleportation magic will not work. What you do in your game is your own business, but SI requirement is not up to debate (just as OBSE).

Quest markers seem to be hit and miss. Some quests have them, some don't. 

Original game had no quest markers and yet people played it perfectly fine.

[help screens] The Oblivion startup dungeon quest and the main quest and most others offer a screen that help you find the next thing you need to do to advance the quest. EX; "You should tell whoever about whatever and/or give the questthing to someone' (Please note that this not a real message from oblivion. It's just an example).

The only 'help screens' I can possibly think of are quest stage updates - in Oblivion they pop up in the centre of the screen, unless you have a mod installed to stop that. And they will pop up just as well in Morroblivion, it's just that most of the quest updates happen in dialogue menu.

I think most of the 'bug' issues are caused by trying to design things so that the player needs to actually 'think'.

Well, that's how they made games back then. We didn't invent anything new, all quests and dialogue were ported from original Morrowind.

Shivering Isles requirement means MORE than just some textures - without it several scripts, including teleportation magic will not work.

The scripts are just scripts .. "teleportation magic" (mark/recall) depend more on OBSE than shivering isles. Mark/Recall work just fine in my game without shivering isles installed at all.

Here's the 'MWSpellMarkScript' that's attached to the '0mark' Spell

ScriptName mwSpellMarkScript

Begin ScriptEffectStart
    mwMarkerRat.Disable ; just in case
    mwMarkerRat.MoveTo Player

    if PlayerInMorrowind == 1
        set aaaIntervention.World to 1
    elseif GetPlayerInSEWorld == 1
        set aaaIntervention.World to 2
    else
        set aaaIntervention.World to 0
    endif

    fbmwInterventionBackup.moveto fbmwInterventionMarker

    Message "Marker placed..."
End
;<CSEBlock>
;<CSECaretPos> 22 </CSECaretPos>
;</CSEBlock>

I'm sure I am confused and just don't understand, but could you explain why shivering isles is needed to make this script work?

The shivering isles bsa is needed for the meshes/textures used on several items.  I did an archive invalidation so I could use existing Oblivion textures and meshes. works fine and I don't need to have shivering isles installed. [External image]

 

The fact aside that Shivering Isles dependency will never be removed and this being extremely off-Topic , these are just a few things that are used by Morroblivion:

The fork of Horripilation directly uses a Shivering Isles script and its spells. 

All of the special Summon Spells added by Shivering Isles, like Summon Golden Saint, Summon Hunger etc.

If you want to see more dependencies just open Morrowind_ob.esm in TES4Edit and check for Errors.

I also think it's safe to say that an expansion released 7 years ago and featuring some of the best Elder Scrolls quests and characters isn't that big of a requirement.

 

Teleportation scripts are made with SI in mind, so if you use Morroblivion's teleportation spells to travel between SI\Cyrodiil\Vvardenfell you'll always get correct dialogue.