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Zdenatz
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[COMPLETED - ARMOR CONCEPT] Steel Shield

EDIT: final designs, by FDT2.

Tower shield: 

Buckler:  Outlander variant: 

Steel Armor

So, unlike original, which was extremely foreign (to MW), and was really juts a typical knight's armor from the middle ages, this armor has a more native feel, but still not as native as bonemold armor. In my eyes, it is still a foreign armor design, which has been adapted by local craftsmen. On MW armor helmet was the most recognizable piece for me, and helmet on this armor is a good reinterpretation of the original, keeping the same iconic parts and changing the original helmet design to be less generic by adding more morrowind like shapes -> something that I would like to do with shields.


Steel Shield

Even though the original is 100% metal, I would actually do something similiar to skyrim's steel shield, which is mostly wood, with shield boss and metal ring. Also leather covering the wood, unlike skyrim. It all stems from the basic purpose of a smaller shield, which is to deflect attacks, so it has to be lighter. To make it more fit the armur, I think it should be less decorated than original but I would like to keep a center detail on the shield, maybe repeat the silver emblem from the chest of the armor and cloth color.


Steel Tower Shield

IMO, ugliest shield in MW. Again, A lot of the general ideas about decoration are the same for tower and ordinary shields. It's purpose is a bit different - to protect from attacks - so it has to be thicker, with more metal reinforcements, and weight of the shield itself is not really a concern (atleast not as much as for the normal shield)


So this is just a few brief thoughts about the shields, feel free to add your opinions, post some pictures, and stay tuned for the thumbnails

Edited by: Cesare on 04/18/2016 - 20:12
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I think as long as it keeps

I think as long as it keeps the imperial influence it will look fine

 

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I think the bigger shield,

I think the bigger shield, the less metal it should have, so actually contrary to what you're saying ;) A solid plate of steel size of the one in MW would be impossible to carry around, let alone used for anything. However, there's plenty of examples of expanded bucklers that were all metal, and not much smaller than a small round shield. That's what I had in mind when designing that armor anyway.



Here are some silhouette ideas I started working on recently for the steel shield (not the tower one), and didn't get around to publishing them, maybe you'll find them useful:




Not particularly happy with the two on the right, but that twisted rectangle seems fitting to me.
The buckler looks a bit less generic than the original, while also keeping a slight "gothic knight" feel this armor had, but seems slightly more exotic.

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Historically, as steel plate
Historically, as steel plate armours became more prevalent, knights began to use smaller shields or none at all as they were unnecessary due to the excellent protection afforded by the armour [citation needed]. Therefore I think a small steel buckler, as suggested by dragomir, is best for the small shield, as this fits with the knightly function and also fills a niche not explored by other shield types. I really like the central example provided by dragomir, and the one in the picture, they have a lot of character. For the larger shield, my first thought is of the pavise shield used by crossbowmen, mainly to protect from arrows (pic attached). This is actually one of the few examples in history I can think of of an actual 'tower shield' being used, outside of antiquity. Missile protection seems like a good excuse for such a large shield, if the wearer is using steel armour. I agree that a solid steel tower shield would be as useful as a chocolate kettle, but the large wooden/leather space on a pavise-like shield could allow for some interesting motifs to reflect the Cyrodiilian origin.
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I think the starfish/umbrella

I think the starfish/umbrella shield looks out of place. In my opinion, it doesn't fit nor this armor, nor Morrowind. It's just a matter of taste, i won't have a discussion about lore on these.

The armor has rather fluid shapes. Giving it a pointy shield just doesn't fit. The armor's design has changed (for the better). The shield could change too.

I'd go go a multi-material shield for both versions, just because having various materials looks better in 3d, and more natural. 

Quote:

Historically, as steel plate armours became more prevalent, knights began to use smaller shields or none at all as they were unnecessary due to the excellent protection afforded by the armour 

Then what about better armors than steel? Like ebony? No shield at all? 
Furthermore, ebony is heavy as fuck, so there's no point into making an ebony shield. I'm not against realistic constraints, but I wouldn't like to wear a little shield with my badass armor just because it "makes sense". Ebony is twice the weight of steel, and there still are tower shields. 

So just make it look cool, give it a nice shape, then you'll find ways to make it lighter/believable. Don't limit yourself with that kind of thoughts. 

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My general idea usually is

My general idea usually is that the higher tier the armor/weapon is, the less realistic (and more awsum) it can afford to be. It does make a bit of sense if you think about it - a person clad in ebony armor that is super durable but twice the weight of steel is usually suited for combat challenges that were never a thing in the real world - supernatural opponents. And also, at the time they get to that armor and these opponents in their development, they're usually pretty supernaturally strong themselves already.

But that logic is pretty irrelevant for most people, thing is - what it adds to the game experience though. It simply makes you FEEL that you're becoming supernaturally powerful as you progress and upgrade your gear to more and more fabulous stuff.

Therefore iron, steel, leather etc. I like to have a bit more realism with, just so that they seem to make sense when used by an average Joe.

I wouldn't mind changing the shapes to be more fluid, or seeing some painted ideas for multi-material steel shields, but I still like the idea of it being an extended buckler. It just seems right to me. And bucklers historically didn't develop for knights, they started off as a civil shield for personal defense, because they were really easy to carry around, which makes great sense for an adventurer too.

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Hey guys! Sorry for

Hey guys! Sorry for inactivity, I had exam yesterday and I was really busy studying. Thought I could find time for this, but I couldn't. Anyway here are some thumbnails, just general shapes. Speak your mind, and next step are a few drawn variations.


Steel Shield

My favorites are 9, 11, 12.  I prefer simpler shapes since steel isn't top gear,  also more triangular ones, since it echoes imperial shield from skyrim. I am against bucklers, since they aren't present in morrowind nor skyrim. Adding bucklers selectively for only one type of armor would IMO look out of place. Furthermore, this is not steel plate, so I think a larger shield is a must here.I would rather that all armors have normal shields, and if community wants bucklers, they can be added at the later date. Also, if I understood it correctly, bucklers are used more for deflecting attacks rather than taking them, so it might look weird with skyrim animations. And yes, all those shields are imagined as wood/steel combination.



Steel Tower Shield

My favorites are 8, 4, 3. Same as the above, simpler shapes. With more metal reinforcements i meant not full pieces of metal, but something like this:

 

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All these shapes would make

All these shapes would make pretty amazing shields so it's hard to pick just one. You've done very well so far and these designs look like you have put a lot of thought into them. If I had to pick my favourites though I would go for 8 for the normal shield and 14 for the tower shield.

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I'm liking 11 for the regular

I'm liking 11 for the regular and 2 for the tower, which could really be changed to just a larger (but not so large as most of the tower shields here) version of 11 for the regular shield.

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You're pumping these put like

You're pumping these put like crazy, awesome!. I'm leaning towards 9 and 14 as they maintain some sight when you hold them up. The other look really good too, but these two have something practical to them. And I like a-symmetrical stuff. :) Overall, really nice ideas!

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Wow, you really have a good

Wow, you really have a good eye for shapes! Keep it up!

Normal shield: 7 or 13 (nostalgia, I like it though). Tower shield: 9, it´s very cool. Second would be 3.

Btw: I like many of your forms, maybe some of them can be used for other shields later. Shield number 10 and tower 7 would fit perfekt for Orc armour imo. Tower 7 is especially cool, reminds me of Dark Souls and it´s rough armor design ;)

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Tower shield #9 looks really

Tower shield #9 looks really interesting, same as #14.
Noice job 

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I don't have a preference,

I don't have a preference, just want to compliment you in the way you use the silhouettes to narrow down design choices. Really good and effective idea.

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I like 11 for normal and 5

I like 11 for normal and 5 for tower shield.

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12 for the small shield, 5
12 for the small shield, 5 and 14 for the tower. These are all super cool though, it's a shame we can't have all of them! I think tower 11 would go better with orcish - it's more elegant, like the armour.
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#9 looks very unique, I love

Tower shield #9 looks very unique, I love it!

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I'd go with 9 for the small

I'd go with 9 for the small shield and 3 for the tower shield. I always appreciate simple shapes for shields.

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I would go with 3a or 3f, and

I would go with 3a or 3f, and add more battle damage, to match armor. I tried to keep ornamentation minimal, since steel is second worst heavy armor in game, and i tried to echo existing parts of the armor on the shields. I don't really think heavy battle damage fits, but i have included the experiments since i had drawn them. Feel free to say your oppinion, point parts of the shields you like and don't like and sketch your ideas, it's all welcome. Next up is the same process, but with the tower shields.

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I agree with you, that steel

I agree with you, that steel shield could look too wasted with heavy battle damages. But the added details in 1D, 2C and some scratchces and bumps would make a perfect sense I think! Details like in these consider, that the wearer knows his shield and added some own benefits for better usage... Make it look used and long worn but not ruined.

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This isn't the final texture

This isn't the final texture for steel armor by the way, at least it's different from what I saw from Ravanna. The battle damage is too heavy on this one.

The general direction of this armor in comparison to iron, was that while iron is just bits and bobs cobbled together by a bandit in a cave - this one is the first PROFFESSIONAL equipment you can lay your hands upon. Too heavy battle damage would suggest otherwise, but it needs to look very worn and used. So many tiny surface scratches, but avoid big dents and ESPECIALLY cuts. You can't cut though steel, and adding deep cut marks make it look like leather.

I also don't like the idea of giving it chains and scales - it's basically like having a floppy sword made of scales, or a car made of rubber ducks.

As it is a proffessional armor, but still rather simple and practical in design - shield should follow the same direction. With what it is, a regular shield needs to have its up and down somewhat similar, so that the grip is in the middle of weight. It'd also make it look less like the horrible Skyrim imperial shields, and less generic.



This seems a bit more balanced I think.

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I'd go with the 2nd shape. It

I'd go with the 2nd shape. It's simple and fluid. The others have parts that stick out unnecessarily. I'm gonna get lapidated, but you could lose the umbo and have just a nice vertical pinch, like the helmet.

Or a boat.


The shield shouldn't look brand new, but as for the other basic sets, don't make them too recognisable. Go for a few dents, missing rivets, etc, but don't go too far. If you want a completely broken version, make it as an extra, and ask the 3d department if it's possible to have an alternate texture to add more variations. It should have the same shape, though. We can't afford too many models.

I wouldn't have it flat, though. The armour's plates are all curvy/pinched. Making a flat shield would look awkward.

Great job!

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Maybe not as deep as the boat

Maybe not as deep as the boat, but I'd be fine with it being convex and having a ridge instead of an umbo (as long as the hand will fit inside it).

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Dragomir wrote:

Dragomir wrote:

With what it is, a regular shield needs to have its up and down somewhat similar, so that the grip is in the middle of weight. It'd also make it look less like the horrible Skyrim imperial shields, and less generic.

Kite shields were very asymmetrical up and down, they just placed the grip higher to compensate. Also, I liked the Skyrim Imperial shields :(

Without an umbo/boss, wouldn't we lose the shield-hand protection? Unless you're suggesting having some sort of central steel strip over the central ridge and hand instead?

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Zdenatz takes a break from

Zdenatz takes a break from Skywind for his studies, so I will finish the steel shields for him. Depending on his great work, I´ld like to finish the detailed form for the normal shield, before we create the tower shield in detail. Therefore I drawed this:

I worked with the second shape from Zdenatz last post. I didn´t remove the shield boss (can still be done, of course) because I think, the shield will fit better to more different armors with it; besides the steel armour of course :P. I mind the steel shield as a base item, recently dropped ingame by stronger bandits or worn by adventurers/ mercenaries. 

We have a light and handy, but also well-crafted shield now. A wooden base with a bulge to the front, the edges and the boss are smithed of the typical blackened steel. The front is covered with leather, the rough stitches remind on other dunmer-crafted shields (swipers Netch leather shield for example).

What do you think?

 

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Great.  As expected.

Great. 

As expected.

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Looks way too D&D and

Looks way too D&D and knightly in shape for my tastes. Not only following a generic knight shield pattern that is in every fantasy RPG ever, but it's also very unrealistic due to misconceptions about its function.

The rim kind of feels the same way, due to how wide it is it seems way oversized, which again is a typical fantasy stuff - oversized rims to highilight EVERY plate, resulting in World of Warcraft look. Not to mention if you're adding a boss, at least make it functional - the hand goes INSIDE it, not behind it.

Objectively it's a well done concept and it would be fitting for many other games, it just goes against everything I had in mind for this armor, drawing it closer to the fantasy knight cliché. I still think some sort of an expanded buckler would fit it much better, and then more materials could be used for the tower shield.




Something that seems to be meant for active parrying as opposed to static blocking, and easy to carry around. Rectangular would be good too, and somewhat more reminiscent of the original (even though original was utter rubbish). Sorry for being so negative, but that's just my opinion, and I'm a bit touchy about that particular set.

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No problem, I see what you

No problem, I see what you mean and I don´t take critiques personal at all.

I thought, the sketch 2 was the fav in upper post, so I used it. But then I´ll come up with some new shapes soon. Maybe my V 1.0 can be used for an imported shield for N´wah-outlanders^^. Item diversity is always good I think.

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I'm glad to hear that, and I

I'm glad to hear that, and I'd have to live with it if everyone else disagrees, I just have a terrible urge to speak my mind on different topics :P

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The fun thing is that no one

The fun thing is that no one approved the buckler thing the first time. Pushing for it to be approved a second time isn't the most promising move. 

Moreover, one shape has been approved. We're not getting back to the beginning of the topic. 

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Sablestone did, and you were

Sablestone did. You were the only one to critique it, and you critiqued parts that could easily be changed to suit the armor while keeping it still as a bigger buckler.

I've never seen one shape approved, at least 4 were.

I'm not pushing for the buckler idea again, I'm explaining why the current one doesn't work for me, and how it could be changed to not resemble the awful generic fantasy heater shields so much.

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I do still think a buckler is
I do still think a buckler is a fine idea, and would add to the variety of the small shields. And the examples provided by Dragomir would look great in the game, IMO.
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aim for pure metal, similar

aim for pure metal, similar dark painting versions too, so we can show off our new environment map reflection and shaders.
wood is meh.
shapes are all good so far

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So, some quick sketches this

So, some quick sketches this time.


I have to find a compromise between the shape that was selected by the community before and Dragos suggestions. Harder task than I thought XP

Now I came so far, perhaps you recognize the right way in one of this? C is the origina shape, now in full steel. Needs some carvings on the front or another fancy detail if we go with it. A and B are alienated but interesting imo.

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Considering the shape of the

Considering the shape of the armour set, I think C works best. They're all cool, though.

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A looks most indigenous (not

A looks most indigenous (not sure if it must - steel is imported).
Could look even better with some symbolics on it.

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I like them all, and the C

I like them all, and the C shape seems better in all metal. I like B especially, but maybe a touch too alien this time? Could be just a matter of texturing, and adding rivets for at least the grip inside.

Here's a slightly simplified blend of all of them, little bit less alien, I think it would fit well.


Sorry for the roughness of this drawing, I'm short on time right now.

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New week, new luck! At first,

New week, new luck! First, I doodled out the normal stell shield/buckler. I wanted to try out greyscaling, so be nice. In final coloring it will be pretty ;)

Besides I reworked the wrong boss of my first version into a spike. Irl totally useless, but with Skyrim bashing animation it will work. Maybe you can use it as an imported shield for outlander bandits, mercenaries and so on.

AND I had some thoughts about the tower shield. Here are 4 suggestions, depending on Zdenatz shape 14, which had the most votes in upper posts:

Edit: Reloaded post, used false pictures at first. 

 

 

 

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Any critiques for tower

Any critiques for tower sketches? If not, I´ld prefer D...

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Hey! I think the small shield

Hey! I think the small shield is great. As for tower shield, I prefer D too. I think B is interesting, but a bit over the top :)

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Small shield looks awesome,
Small shield looks awesome, great work! For the tower shield, I like the overall shape but to me they all look a bit too complex and quirky, although perhaps this is just from not seeing them in colour and not being able to tell what's made of what material. I'd say though that perhaps a simpler design with just a leather cover and perhaps a generic emblem, perhaps just some basic colouration would work well.
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I agree that I don't really

I agree that I don't really like any of the tower shields so far. And I don't like the idea of too much leather on the shield. It's a steel shield, after all, not leather. Don't hide the majority of the steel behind a different material.

I'd like the tower shield to bear some resemblance to the buckler. They're part of the same set.

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I strongly oppose tower

I strongly oppose tower shields being mainly steel, that's another generic fantasy cliche I'd really like to avoid - huge slabs of metal. I'm happy with how the small shield looks, but for the tower ones I'd also go a bit simpler. The main focus of this set is to look proffessional, in contrast to iron, which is similar material but just cobbled together. So same shape, wood covered with leather, steel rims and mayb some fittings would be enough for me to do the job. In that sense A is my favourite, but I'd still mayhaps make it a touch more like some reality example. It's just fitting for this set.

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Dragomir wrote:I strongly

Dragomir wrote:

I strongly oppose tower shields being mainly steel, that's another generic fantasy cliche I'd really like to avoid - huge slabs of metal.

Although I completely agree with this, and there are very few historical examples of large metal shields for a good reason, I think it's going to be weird to produce something that's labeled as a "steel tower shield" but isn't predominantly steel-faced. I'm keen to see what you guys settle on.

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Would you be so kind to bring

Would you be so kind to bring in these examples? Only ones I could think of are Greek hoplons which weren't really that big, and usually wooden with not so thick bronze sheet on the surface. Note that bronze is also considerably lighter than steel and can be worked to much thinner sheets since it's softer.

Other examples I know of are some high medieval pavises - these shouldn't really be ever categorized as shields though, and rather as siege equipment. They would be way too heavy to use in combat, especially melee, and they were deployed with a stand to give cover to crossbowmen.

It'd be really interesting to know about any other ones ;)

And really, I don't like the idea that a "steel" shield has to be mainly steel. Do you also want steel spears and arrows to have steel shafts? I think it will be enough if the main material is simply the most noticeable thing, doesn't mean it has to be the most of the shield, but it should be the main reinforcement in crucial points.

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Dragomir wrote:

Dragomir wrote:

And really, I don't like the idea that a "steel" shield has to be mainly steel. Do you also want steel spears and arrows to have steel shafts? I think it will be enough if the main material is simply the most noticeable thing, doesn't mean it has to be the most of the shield, but it should be the main reinforcement in crucial points.

This is a fair point. As long as the steel components are visually prominent, I guess it's fine.

I agree that the first tower shield is the best of the current lot, but none of the designs really stand out to me right now.

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Dragomir wrote:Do you also

Dragomir wrote:

Do you also want steel spears and arrows to have steel shafts?

That's an excellent point, and I don't disagree.

Dragomir wrote:

Would you be so kind to bring in these examples?

I had in mind medieval heater shields / smaller kite shields, which were sometimes plated in thin metal and are arguably the archetypal medieval shield. I can't seem to actually find any museum photos of such shields, though. Was also thinking about European bucklers/rodelas and Greek aspis (as you mentioned). That said, none of these would be the size of a Morrowind tower shield.

 

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new sketches! Doodled around

new sketches! Doodled around a lot and created some other versions, played around with natural forms for a dunmer-type design. Sketch number F or I is sth I would be keen with.


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The00Devon
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They look great! F, I, and J

They look great! F, I, and J are my favourites of those. The top row all seem a little too decorative for a fairly standard shield, and G and H feel like they have the steel in the wrong place, as the majority of the attacks would be shoulder height slashes to the sides or chops down on the top (although I guess that they would be weighted well).

Maybe you could mix I and J; take the base of J, and add the centre piece from I. Then you have the main areas of attack enforced, a boss-type-thing for shield bashes, and a counter weight at the bottom.

swiper
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F has my vote. 

F has my vote. 

Nexos
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E for me. Looks more fun ;)

E for me. Looks more fun ;)

Nexos
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E for me. Looks like you've

E for me. Looks like you've had more fun ;)

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