[WIP/RELz] Dagoth's Ash Antagonists

falmer.

cheers for the both of you !

I've posted in the voice acting thread inquiring about the dialogue for the ash creatures. I would definitely like to see them voiced. Maybe some of them could rant randomly (namely the ash slaves and ash zombies). It would be pretty freaky to be wandering down a dark corridor and then to hear their insane ranting before you even see them!

Other ash creatures have dialogue that is directed specifically toward the player. Maybe they could speak some sort of greeting like NPCs do when you pass near them. Then other forms of dialogue will open up when you enter conversation with them (that is if they're not already attacking you).

Of course most of this is down to those in charge of voice acting, but what do you think?

Didn't Ash Slaves have dialogue in Morrowind in regards to decorating tips.

Very nice indeed! Is it available for download yet?

not yet, isnt my model, i just rig, so its available when Ravanna says it is

So. Much. Win.

"The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet."

"Everything is wrong. This is not straight. This is too high. This is in my way. We must put them right."

Yeah, it would be kinda neat for them to yell that at you, kinda like how Dremora yell nice friendly things at you when they spot you.

Really cool, I'd like to see it on a draugr too.

It looks way awesome though there is a bit of clipping in the leg area but it's not finished so I'm not worried. awesome work you two.

alexanderb

Please try draugr skeleton.

Mehh

"The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet."

"Everything is wrong. This is not straight. This is too high. This is in my way. We must put them right."

Yeah, it would be kinda neat for them to yell that at you, kinda like how Dremora yell nice friendly things at you when they spot you.

I was kind of thinking that they would say these things randomly before they see you because it would be a weird battle cry having them running at you and screaming about the furniture.

BegottenMeridian

Mehh

"The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet."

"Everything is wrong. This is not straight. This is too high. This is in my way. We must put them right."

Yeah, it would be kinda neat for them to yell that at you, kinda like how Dremora yell nice friendly things at you when they spot you.

I was kind of thinking that they would say these things randomly before they see you because it would be a weird battle cry having them running at you and screaming about the furniture.

i don't know about the furniture rambling before they see you but i should be able to add attack sounds and the detections for when they do see you

It looks awesome in game,  I'd have to say it would probably look better on the draugr skeleton though.  The ones from morrowind, moved very similar to the player,  and weren't all that hunched over.  Looks awesome either way. 

stijmunkey

BegottenMeridian

Mehh

"The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet."

"Everything is wrong. This is not straight. This is too high. This is in my way. We must put them right."

Yeah, it would be kinda neat for them to yell that at you, kinda like how Dremora yell nice friendly things at you when they spot you.

I was kind of thinking that they would say these things randomly before they see you because it would be a weird battle cry having them running at you and screaming about the furniture.

i don't know about the furniture rambling before they see you but i should be able to add attack sounds and the detections for when they do see you

How about giving the dialogue to a select few of them standing near the weird furniture arrangements and maybe even an animation. They had some interesting animations in Morrowind where they would get down on their knees. You could keep those ash slaves in particular lost in their thought until you get near them. Then they would go in for the attack. Would that be possible?

in regards to a praying animation i believe the reiklings have one :P

 

ya i might be able to do that I'll look into it

Trytonlee

in regards to a praying animation i believe the reiklings have one :P

 

I think in Morrowind it was more of get down on their knees and grasp their face in torment. I can't really remember it's been a very long time since I've properly played Morrowind.

i dislike falmer use because the walk wierdt because the are blind and move tru smal spaces and agree that draug would work beter

 the gold fits the slave good but the zombie is the lowest from low would be beter whit  out the slave coler and braclets  leaf the ear rings  and remove maby the uper lip and halow the eye's out so u can see good the bone  skul maby make it a bit whiter so it stiks out more 

the missing arm is nice for the zombie to so u got different types same for crystal i see them as bit try and fial attemps

the rest i al agree and love to see what the gone look like 

I believe they should not be missing any limbs.  These beings are Dagoth Ur's version of the perfect beings with the Ascended Sleepers being the pinnacle.  I just don't think a missing arm would fit.  Unless it was for, a unique boss character, someone who has proven themselves to Dagoth Ur.

A red glowing heartstone or crystal would look pretty cool inside of the skull, down were the brainstem would be.  Deep down enough were you could just see the top of it.  

The model looks awesome, The collar fits with this one, as it is more of a tweeny, more advanced than an ash slave, but not quite an Ash Zombie.  As for the earrings they don't look out of place to me, since these were once Dunmer.

It looks amaze balls!

In the concept art I really liked the one with the skin peeled off as well. There are like 8 different Draugr, so I see no reason not to have as many "stages" of our ash zombies as everything you do is gold. So if you have the time (or inclination) I'd like to see another stage where maybe the eye sockets have caved in, but bridge of the nose is still there, skin has peeled off and you can see the faint glow of the heart stone through the sockets.

A red glowing heartstone or crystal would look pretty cool inside of the skull, down were the brainstem would be.  Deep down enough were you could just see the top of it.

Yeah I agree, as long as its not too visible.

Ravanna

k done the ash zombie, this one is just a burnt off face, different head model and added jiub's earings.

Also, are we gonna forgo the missing arm?

And do I do a 2nd version of Ash Ghoul/Zombie with the glowing crystal in the skull before the full ash ghoul?

Think it was alex who had the good idea of the ash ghoul -> ascended sleeper.
Final idea:
The Ash Slave is a dunmer with the corprus disease/curse/blessing.
Dagoth Ur takes them and transforms them in stages, then releases them again.
Ash Slave -> Ash Zombie Stage 1 (pictured)
Ash Zombie Stage 1 -> Ash Zombie Stage 2? (places magic crystal in head)
Ash Zombie Stage 2 -> Ash Ghoul (Biological transformation snout)
Ash Ghoul -> Ascended SLeeper (Full transformation)

First of all I would like to point out that Divayth Fyr considered corprus to be a divine blessing, and not a disease, that most mortals can't handle:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Corprus

Secondly, this should be considered to be the most lore friendly article on the advancement of those with corprus:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/corprus

There are no crystals or heart stones involved. It is merely the combination of corprus and the power of the Heart of Lorkhan that causes the advancement of this divine blessing. Read the sections for Ash Slave, Ash Zombie, Ash Ghoul, Ascended Sleeper and Ash Vampire:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bestiary_A

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ash_Creatures

I would like to make some of my own observations. I'm going to divide Dagoth Ur's minions up into 4 sections:

Corrupted Dunmer

These are the Sleepers and Dreamers that can be found when playing the main quest.

The Sleepers are those who are under Dagoth Ur's influence through the invasion of their dreams. They don't really have any control over themselves. They can be brought back from this brain-washed like state later in the game.

The Dreamers are loyal Dunmer servants of House Dagoth. They're usually involved in espionage, such as planting ash statues on unsuspecting individuals. I'd like to point out that they usually have red hair... it's just an observation.

Diseased Corprus

These are the most unfortunate of those who have contracted corprus. This is where corprus may be considered more of a disease than a blessing, but where does one draw the line?

The Corprus Stalker is the most commonly found "Diseased Corprus". They appear to have plague like growths and rotten gangrenous areas in the flesh. They are completely "zombified". Corprus has rotted their mind to a violent and unintelligent state.

The Lame Corprus is very similar to the Corprus Stalker but with more adavnced like growths making it very difficult to move about.

Yagrum Bagarn is a named example of a corprus victim. He has become very bloated and has lost his legs due to the disease like elements. He has become rather confused and lost a great deal of memory over the years, though not to the same extent as most other corprus victims. Also, notice how he is still alive since the disappearance of the Dwemer. Despite the fact that he was in a different dimension, evading the same doom as the rest of the Dwemer, since his return and affliction he has not succumbed to old age. I belive that I have read somewhere that corprus prevents mortallity via old age.

A few more observations: It seems that most lifeforms could contract corprus. The two examples of Corprus Stalker and Lame Corprus don't have a Dunmer-like appearance: no dark skin; no red eyes. Could it be that Dunmer evade these disease-like effects. Probably not, but I do believe that the native Dunmer, belonging to House Dagoth, in particular, pass over the disease-like elements and obtain the blessing-like elements instead. Hence the "Blessed Corprus".

Blessed Corprus

Ash Slaves --> Ash Zombies --> Ash Ghouls --> Ascended Sleepers:

Most of us have figured the advancement in "ash" ranks by now. However, I think there is still a bit of confusion about how they transform. The power behind the transformation comes from the Heart of Lorkhan, with corprus being the gateway. There are no crystals or heart stones involved. I would also suggest that each stage of "biological" advancement does not happen immediately, but rather through a gradual stage of evolution.

The Ash Slave is a Dunmer, possibly once a Sleeper or a Dreamer, whose face (above the mouth) has been turned to ash. They seem to be eyeless (their eyes may have turned to ash and crumbled before their face has crumbled). They are particullarly strong and wield fairly strong destruction magic.

The Ash Zombie is the next stage of adavncement. (NOTE: They are not anyway linked to the undead and should not be treated similar to the undead. They have a degree of intelligence but are being tormented into a state of madness under Dagoth Ur's influence. The Ash Slaves are in a similar state.) They have lost the use of magic but are quite strong. Their face has crumbled, giving way for the next stages of advancement.

The Ash Ghoul has grown a biological worm-like growth out of the gap in their head from the more advanced progression of corprus and the power of the Heart of Lorkhan. They are much more intelligent and do not seem to be suffering the same maddening torment as the Ash Slave or Ash Zombie. They are dangerous with magic.

The Ascended Sleeper is the most advanced stage a Dunmer can reach throught the progression of corprus and the power from the Heart of Lorkhan. They are highly intelligent and extremely dangerous with magic. They have greenish/yellowish/brownish tentacle-like growths making up most of their face. They have the ability to speak but a mouth cannot be seen due to the mass of tentacles and the unrevealing robes they wear. When killed they only leave behind a skull resembling the monstrous head they support.

House Dagoth Nobility

Dagoth Ur and the Ash Vampires make up the nobility of House Dagoth.

It is noted that Ash Vampires (in no way related to vampires or the undead) are the kin of Dagoth Ur from when House Dagoth was once a recoginised political house of Morrowind (or Resdayn, as it was named at the time). They absorb the most power, after Dagoth Ur, from the Heart of Lorkhan. If they are killed they will eventually respawn. They have huge muscular bodies and claw-like hands (long red fingernails? red claws?). They have more of a bright grey colour to their skin than most Dunmer, but they do have the classic Dunmer red eyes. Their beards are quite similar to the beards of the Dwemer (maybe a local fashion they picked up on?) and they support a golden ornament on their head (a symbol of rank?).

Observations: their body is quite identical to that of Dagoth Ur. Dagoth Ur, however, supports a golden mask that covers all of the front of his head and face (to show the highest rank?). From behind he appears to have long, black hair.

Note that Dagoth Ur and the Ash Vampires did not go through stages of corprus like the previous mentioned minions. (Do they even have corprus? Would they even need it for their own transformation? I'm guessing no to both of those questions. It's a questionable matter.) They achieved their powers and appearance directly from the Heart of Lorkhan. They were the original members of House Dagoth when the house went corrupt.

Also, I think you should give back the missing arm to the ash minion. Through the path that corprus is leading them it should only be their faces, mind and powers that are affected. Limbs should stay intact.

Missing limbs could work for the "Diseased Corprus" creatures. They do appear to suffer from rotten flesh. However, the flesh could have been ripped/scratched/cut off. Corprus sufferers have a tendency to cut off corprus growths and eat them in their madness. Though, it should also be noted that Yagrum Bagarn is legless and probably due to corprus.

I hope this has helped clear up some of the misconceptions of corprus disease.

I would also like to give some thoughts on the heart stone/crystal idea.

Anyone who has played Morrowind should agree that neither a heart stone or a crystal was ever mentioned in the lore in relation to Dagoth Ur's minions or corprus disease. To assume that it does have something to do with corprus is making up your own lore. It's just not lore friendly (unless you can point me to a resource that suggests it is lore friendly, because I haven't found any references to say so).

The heart stone only appears in Dragonborn on the island of Solstheim. If I had a guess it may have appeared as a result of geographical influences after the Red Year. Ash Guardians are known to eat heart stone, but ash guardians are daedric atronachs and not related to Dagoth Ur's ash minions. Ash spawn also exist in Dragonborn, but they are undead, risen from the ash, and not related to Dagoth Ur's ash minions either.

So you see there is quite a difference in lore between these two games and the associated creatures.

Another observation: the ash slaves appear to have grey hair, but the rest of the minions don't. I'd guess that the hair dies with the face. Maybe the hair turns to ash too (the grey colour would be evidential). Note that ash zombies have absolutely no hair. When hair falls out it usually does so gradually. It doesn't all fall out immediately. If it is falling out it doesn't just suddenly turn grey either. Note there is quite a fair bit of hair on Morrowind's ash slave and it is grey. Then there is no hair whatsoever on the ash zombie or ash ghoul. That is why I guess that the hair goes through a phase were it turns grey, as the face becomes dry and wrinkled. Then both (over time) become ash and crumble. The eyes probably dried up and crumbled first.

Also note that in Morrowind at no stage do any of these creatures appear to be blind. They do rant in madness, and seem to be confused about their surroundings, but this appears to be more mental than the loss of their senses. I'd propose that the Heart of Lorkhan becomes the power that makes up their senses. They may have achieved a new sense of awareness, a form of enlightenment. At first it is very confusing and maddening, but as they get more powerful their abilities grow and so does their mind and the connection to the Heart of Lorkhan.

Note that there is nothing official about any of this. They are just observations based on evidence and resources. The ash minions definitely go from a phase of confusion to that of high intelligence, and it's definitely the Heart of Lorkhan responsible for most of (or all of) this. That is what the game has shown and told us.

I feel like I may have been coming across as some angry, lore-crazy dude. So I'd like to say sorry, and I'm not angry at all, far from it. But I am lore-crazy ;)

I love your work Ravanna (part of the reason why I've been posting on this thread so much). You are definitely the person for the job. I can't wait to see the rest of your ash creatures!

Your's crazily,

BM

Are you a lore police officer ? :P

Of course I am, and I hope the rest o' y'all do proceed as lore-abiding-citizens.

Remember folks: information, then observation, then speculation.

@BegottenMeridian

You've made a very good observations as to lore of the Morrowind game. Absolutely agree with you.

Ravanna
also, http://victoriadaedra.deviantart.com/ gave me the go ahead to take inspiration from her morrowind designs, so the ash ghoul is going to look great.

Excellent news! I am in anticipation of your next incredible creation.

Originally made by Shagan-fury: http://shagan-fury.deviantart.com/

Look at Ash Zombies. May be, if its possible, you could in the future also equip them with Sixth House Bell Hammer in addition to Spiked Club?

it would be nice to see on the ascended sleeper in every hole u see the glow of there red dunmer eye so u knowe what it at 1 time was same for the ash goul  but not as big as in the fanart why would the eye's grow biger before going smaller makes no sense

the origenel ascended sleeper i always thought what a wierdt mask the got but thats there face lol also the got baby arms 

Thanks again for the models Ravanna. Dont know hwy the draugr eyes keep showing up, all i know is that it is annoying that they do. hmmm

well i dont know, it looks sweet with glowing eyes too, but its not lore-ish or relates to original

It's sort of a bug when draugr abilities are added to the player/npc for some reason. Here how it's fixed for the player, hope it'll help:

Open the console and use the following command: player.addspell 000f71d1. Close the console, then reopen the console and enter the following command: player.removespell 000f71d1.

so i just have to remove the spells from them in ck?

I'm not sure why we don't fit it to a Dunmer (human) head and body like what it was designed for in the first place?

I thought the Falmer version looked better, but ultimately can't we just use the human body please? That is my request, sorry for all the effort in trying all the different body types, but its a good learning experience to see what works and what doesn't.

It looks great with falmer animations : / you don't want it to walk normaly like a random npc ?

i say looking good even the glowing eye's  even if its not on purpose

and i disagree whit falmer walk and aprove the draug move

like i say before falmer walk that way because the live in tunnels and are blind  why would a ash zombie walk like its gone bump his haed into something and falmer dont run the just walk a bit faster 

but its nice to see different skeletons whit draug i always thought if u seen 1 draugh u seen them al  also do skeletons move the same as draug ? and  for the most human like ash mob u could use npc skeltons

just saying what i am thinking 

I would really prefer to see it with a normal dark elf body. It would be more lore friendly and I think that with broad shoulders the ash zombie doesn't look as creepy as it is supposed to.

About the glowing eyes, I don't know.... It looks cool but it is not lore friendly at all. It is starting to look like Eddie, the Iron Maiden Heavy Metal band mascot:
[External image]

Ah, no one can be satisfied... :)

BegottenMeridian

They're usually involved in espionage, such as planting ash statues on unsuspecting individuals. I'd like to point out that they usually have red hair... it's just an observation.

The gingers are gonna get ya! =P

Just kidding, great overview of the lore.

I've noticed in a few comments and art that talks about the eyes of the ash creatures. Let me express my opinions on the matter:

If we look at Morrowind's ash creature models we should notice the lack of eyes. We know they are creatures that were once Dunmer, but no model shows us eyes.

Starting with the ash slave: Despite the low graphical detail that Morrowind was restricted to at the time we should consider that if they had eyes they would probably be red, like those of the Dunmer. However, the ash slave only has two black, hole-like gaps where there eyeballs should be. So I'm guessing that they are eyeless.

Ash zombie: Not much to be said here except that they have a large gap in their head were their eyes and nose should be - eyeless.

Ash ghoul: If you study their head, and taking into consideration of the likelihood that they evolved from ash zombies, one should notice that they are eyeless too.

Ascended sleepers: It's hard to know what's going on with the biology of their heads because they are covered in tentacles and wear a hooded robe that covers up most of their head. I don't know what those holes in their head are but there are more than 2 (maybe they are used for breeding? nostrils?), but the point is, all we know is that they are just holes. And consider the fact that if the other ash creatures can do fine without eyes then why would the ascended sleepers have them after evolving from the others?

I've posted before on how these guys may get their senses from the power of the Heart of Lorkhan. I could blabber on about how these guys might have enlightened extra senses that we don't have, but we should take notice of the state of their biology that we know about and work upon that.

My final opinion: they're all eyeless and they don't need eyes.

I'm sure the glowing eyes weren't on purpose, but dear lord, are people seriously nit picking eyes now?

I knew the glowing eyes weren't intentional and it wasn't in reference to them. I was just offering my opinion on the matter, to help bring back the Morrowind we once played, to be as close as possible to the original in the design and the mysterious background behind all of the things the developers wanted us to think about. And I believe they wanted us to think about these things in a world of fandom, to discuss them and connect the pieces together. I'm not a developer behind this beautiful project. I'm just a lore crazy fan offering his opinion. No one has to take my ideas to heart. Sometimes it is the nit picking that brings life into the detail. And it was the same nit picking the developers had to go through to make the game that all Morrowind veterans love. That is why Morrowind is the most unique Elder Scrolls game.

Edit: I'm only nit picking in areas involved with the main quest. Corprus and the affected creatures make up the background of the main quest with their own mysterious hidden story. I think it's somewhat important, if only a minor importance, to pay attention to the detail here.

OK I was wrong about Yagrum, he is not legless, or at least there is no lore or dialogue that says he is. What is actually going on is that he sits in his "spider buggy" for support and his legs are probably tucked inside. He is so bloated that he can't support himself. We know that corprus causes growths (and that is all we really know about how it affects the biology of an animal) via direct information in the game. There is no evidence that it causes rot (or at least not directly). The growths could be susceptible to infection from other extra influences. This might explain why some of the flesh on these creatures looks a little damaged. There is no evidence of major flesh damage such as limb loss or anything similar.

Just feeding the info...

BM

the last dwarf is a interesting thing to see revived  by some 1 like ravanna  

ceep it up ravanna whit the nice looking clifracer done and the and the ash antagonist coming along nicely i hope u also gone do the Corpus guy's  

If your still having trouble with the glowing eyes, There were monsters in the Monster Mod that used the druagr skeleton, without it having that problem.  Maybe you could look them over.