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comments/feedback on Morroblivion

Submitted by rekuli on

Nice mod.  But there are a few things missing (or, at least, not yet implemented).   As a long-time Morrowind player, I find that the Morroblivion package has some issues:

-- with Morroblivion being an ESM, Oblivion cannot handle things too well, eg. race altering mods like Ren's or COBL Races, which get partly un-done by Morrowind_ob.esm and this in turn "enforces" diverse crashes --- ever wondered why Bethesda integrated Shivering Isles into Oblivion.esm?  That's exactly why.  You should split the Morrowind_ob into a library ESM and the actual landscape/people/quest ESP, then there would be no need anymore to load the ESM first (which clashes with diverse other mods).  You ought to change this.

-- armor: many armor types (even if they are from Vvardenfell Imports and not Morroblivion) are not as convincing or good as the original Morrowind ones.  Immersion goes missing here.

-- missing Armor: Chitin greaves, Redoran Watchman armor, the other Bonemold cuirasses (Armun-An, Gah-Julan, Redoran Founder, etc), and some others

-- missing the eight official Bethesda DLC (Entertainers, Adamantium Armor, Area Effect Arrows, Ebon Ore Artifact, LeFemmArmor, Propylon Master Index, Siege at Firemoth, Bittercoast Sounds) and the addition of the "Firemoth" island chain to the Vvardenfell map

-- Fast-Travel is not disabled while in Vvardenfell (would be more alike to the original TES3, since there are enough methods of travel available and the immersion is deeper).

-- Regarding your statement, Oblivion would have the "superior" engine:  This is wrong, and *only* correct regarding graphics.  In all other respects, it is definitely inferior, eg. in the clothing layering, the interaction/talk system, the magic system (except for spellcasting), scripting, the ease of creating, adding, and handling mods.  Don't put such statements on your site when everyone knows that they are nonsense.  Playing "Morrowind" while running Oblivion is nice and fun, but I will rather quit TES4 and run TES3 when I want to play "true" Morrowind.  Playing Oblivion with the TES3 engine, now *that* would be cool... ;-))

In all other respects: keep up the good work.

Greetings, rekuli

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Last edited by rekuli on 25 Mar 2011 - 10:06.

I once also suggested disabling fast travel (which you can do yourself) but I soon found myself missing fast travel. Oblivion did improve on some things over Morrowind, such as graphics, combat, AI, and I believe fast travel is a good thing.

Imagine going to that remote necromancer stronghold Vas which is a long journey in itself only to travel all the way back to civilization. Traveling back from a location in Morrowind was always a bee-atch, and I think Oblivion did something right there.

Now as far as TES4 being in TES3's engine? Are you kidding me? Yeah, because I want to do that awesome complex Morrowind combat, which is slash, hack, and stab.

Don't get me wrong, Morrowind has a way better world, story, and atmosphere, but the engine sucks. That's why we use the Oblivion engine. I know, they dumbed the skills down and took a few cool weapons out, and I don't agree with that, but overall Oblivion's engine is hella better. Just look at the walking animations of Morrowind, or how people just stand around all day and night doing nothing.

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I'm just happy my game is sweetened by the taste of Morrowind.

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Basicly canceling fast travel means you are not letting morrowind have the Oblivion features. I've always belived this is not designing Morrowind from the beggining. If everything stays the same, so what's the point working? Just a better resolution?

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robertneville777: the combat system can as easily be redone as eg. FCOM does with TES4 (such mods are, actually, existing for TES3).  Same goes for animations and stuff, starting with BB and Better Heads up to cooler combat anims than for TES4.  Ever heard of LCV (Living Cities of Vvardenfell) and MCA (Morrowind Comes Alive)?  So much for "people just standing around day and night"... so it is definitely not that far to think about doing a reverse Morroblivion --- Oblivion played in Morrowind.

christchex: I agree :-)

darth south: The thing is a) immersion and b) role-playing.  Oblivion-style fast travel "Is Not Roleplaying".  With capitals.  The only reason for fast travel in Oblivion is the boring landscape (unless you use OCR and UL, and then you *don't want* to fast travel...).

 

 

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"the combat system can as easily be redone as eg. FCOM does with TES4 (such mods are, actually, existing for TES3).  Same goes for animations and stuff, starting with BB and Better Heads up to cooler combat anims than for TES4. "

I would be interested in a better combat system for Morrowind. Could you post a link?

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robertneville777: some mods are not online anymore, others may have moved to other sites or merged with other projects.  I am not up-to-date concerning this, and I don't want to tell you of X that doesn't exist anymore anywhere and get flamed for that.  And I am no realtime-combat fan, either; for role-playing, I deem TES3's and TES4's combat system being sufficient and stick to that (I'm a roleplayer with focus on story, riddles, enjoyment, and thinking, not a hack'n'slay-enthusiast that revels in simpleton-tasks like "go there, slay all, bring me that").  Just browse sites like TESNexus, PlanetElderScrolls, Elric of Melniboné, and the like, and you'll find something.  If I happen to stumble across something interesting, I'll post a link here.  Promised.

 

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@Rekuli

I found Oblivions quest design was more complex than MW so I don't understand what you mean by "go there, slay all, bring me that". That sounds more like MW too me.

As for combat thats one of the major reasons people would want to play this over Morrowind, you may not like it. But alot of people do and there going even further with the idea in Skyrim.  MW engine is old and dated(and so is OB at this point) but I think OB engine would generally be consider the better engine. Modding is harder because OB is a more complex systems in place, radiant AI and voice acting for example.

OB mods forum has twice the activity of the MW mod forum all most as much as MW, FO3 and FNV combined. Just because you don't like it or many other aspect of OB(fast travel) does not me they should not be there for others. Esp true in the case of fast travel, just don't use it if you don't like it. I use to fast travel in MW its called using the console, now its much easier, I also want the quest compass to be added, radiant AI and this is highly unlikely but voices all things that made Oblivion a better experience for me.

As for mods like Living Cities and MCA they don't come close to being radiant AI and there is yet no combat mod that completely recreates OB type combat. Just because something can be done is not relevant, what matters is the current state of things for those choosing to play this over MW. And vice versa.

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@Rekuli

When I asked for a link, I wasn't being sarcastic. I truly am interested in a mod that improves Morrowind's animations. I have looked on tesnexus and planetelderscrolls and Google for a couple years now(I'll check out that one you mentioned), but there are no substantial animation mods. By that I mean, yes there are some Morrowind animation mods out there, but no good combat ones from what I've seen. Hell, even the better walking and running mods for Morrowind don't look as good as Oblivion's stock animations. So if you do find a mod that improves combat animations, or even walking/running, please let me know. I would appreciate it a lot.

Now for once, I actually agree with Kefka :)  Morrowind has a better story and atmosphere. The way they wrote their stories/quests made up for the fact that 99% of Morrowind quests are either kill NPC/save NPC/retrieve object/plant object. I'm not knocking Morrowind, they did well with the technology they had back then. They wrote cool quest stories on why you had to "kill NPC/save NPC/retrieve object/plant object," but in the end, it came down to one of these four types. When you think about it, that's what most missions are in TES, including Oblivion, but at least it wasn't so straight forward in Oblivion. I would say there are more puzzles in Oblivion than Morrowind.

So actually Morrowind is more hack and slash in a sense.

Now someone please answer me this: I understand a lot of people love turn-based games, particularly RPG ones. The only one I liked was Pokemon old versions back in the day. But why do people like turn-based? I think realtime combat is more realistic and more challenging, because you have to think on your feet. I don't understand hitting someone, then waiting for them to hit me, and then repeat. That just isn't how the world works. The enemy would laugh if I asked him to wait while I think about my next attack. But seriously, if there are some good points to turn-based that I haven't been introduced to, I would love to hear them. *no sarcasm*

My dream is to have Morrowind in Skyrim engine and then there would be peace :)

Hey, one can dream....

 

 

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@Robert I guess I don't just mindlessly type all nonsense then!

I use to be a console player when I was younger and played dozen of turn based rpgs, like the Final Fantasy's for example. I enjoyed the strategic combat, kind of like playing a strategy game, one of the things I like about rpgs was they were based on thinking not twitch reflexes, I was never that good at stuff like Street Fighter or racing games,etc either it was the thinking mans games I liked and turn based combat was that. At the time all the action rpgs I played were so simplistic like Secret of Mana or even much later near the end of my console days when I played Morrowind for XBox. It was just mindless botton smashing.

But Oblivion change that.  No longer was combat mindless button smashing nor was it overly reflex based, the basic were still easy enough for those who did not play action games like myself. But now the combat was much more strategic, and also felt like you were really fighting, like something out of a fantasy movie with the back and forth blocking/attacking mechanic.

Its the same with the Fallouts, it makes fps shooter style combat accessible to people like me. I have attempted to play a few fps(like Crysis because of the graphics and Fry Cry 2 because the open world) because of FO3 but even on the lowest difficulty I could not get anywhere, much too hard for me(and I did not want to try to get better because there is nothing to do in those games other than combat). But Fallout 3 and NV gave me great fps style combat with an accessible rpg take.

Now Skyrim is going to make combat even more awesome and Kingdom of Amalur perhaps even more so. Both will have big boss size monsters(that other games have had for years)finishing moves and all kinds of other cool things. Yet without any complex combo controls and an stat driven rpg base. Good stuff.
I never understood why rpgs can't have all the awesome stuff other games have, like Todd Howard said you can do anything in an rpg. I love the direction Beth is taking TES and I love the fact that there is a new AAA open world rpg maker on the marker(38 studios) as I don't play very many game other than open world rpgs anymore.

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Yeah, I guess I see where you're coming from. Turn-based is kinda like a card game, it's a different type of thinking rather than being quick on the draw with a revolver.

Just played Fallout 3 a couple months ago for my first time. Great game.

Yeah, Skyrim's combat is going to be awesome. Looks like they took a couple cues from the Deadly Reflex mod. Bummer that mod conflicts with Morroblivion.

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rekuli wrote: "-- missing the eight official Bethesda DLC (Entertainers, Adamantium Armor, Area Effect Arrows, Ebon Ore Artifact, LeFemmArmor, Propylon Master Index, Siege at Firemoth, Bittercoast Sounds) and the addition of the "Firemoth" island chain to the Vvardenfell map"

I'd love to see this content in Morroblivion, especially the Fort Firemoth quest. Are there any plans to implement this at some point?

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robertneville777: I was serious, too.  I PM you as soon as I find something.  If you took that as sarcasm, that wasn't intended, I just stated why I cannot directly help by giving links or names.

Kefka and robertneville777: Don't mistake MW for OB and likewise.  In MW you have far more choices how to get through a quest than in OB, slaying or stealing  just being two among others, like smooth talk, buying out or a mix of options.  In  OB, the quest stages are far too limited and restrictive; try to make a step that the stage does not allow.  In MW, the game adapts to it; in OB, you have to exactly follow the order of quest hints and can't even take two steps at once before you got the second hint because you are not allowed to.

OB physics engine: Please.  Don't insist that that partly absolutely ridiculous "physics" where massive minotaur lords fly half a block and mud crabs half a mile (both madly flailing like boneless puppets acted by an electrocuted player) when you hit them full-force, and people and things can go up and down ridiculous angles of ascension, and where people slowly slide down an almost nonexistant diagonal is better than that in MW.  Or more realistic.  To make OB's engine realistic, you need to use the Realistic Physics mod.

About RT: no insult intended, but: "just because the world is that way" as reason for "everything has to be RT" is --- sorry to say --- the most stupid thing I can imagine in context with games.  Realism and "the world is that way" are two different things.  Even in real life, there are situations where you plan and do "round-based" actions, and others where you go realtime.  Just take a look at some games: Civilization, KKND, M.A.X., Ultima I--V and Ultima Underworld, System Shock, The Dig, Monkey Island.  Imagine them in RT; they would lose atmosphere as well as gameplay, because their intent is on making the player think and having him enjoy a calm game where he/she can take as many time as he/she likes to.

jjglvz: reinforcement for your request: my vote here ;-)

---return to topic--- :-))

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I thought Oblivion had much better and more interesting quests than MW. And while not a major things, the physics in Oblivion also added to my sense of immersion in the game. I don't want realistic unless it makes the game better, being able to knock an enemy way into the air was awesome(though it rarely happened). Same thing with Fallout I don't care that realistically there would not be so much blood and gore and constant limb/heads being severed its just more fun that way. And getting back to OB's physics, I love watching beast tumble down the mountains and seeing my arrows stick into and deflect off objects.

Lack of more complex combat, radiant AI and full voice work are also things that show MW's age. Thats not to say I don't like MW, its a fantastic game but its also a game of its time and things have evolved. Yet even though its dated there are still things I like about it more than Oblivion, It has better world design, lots more towns, more armor slots and equipment and a great UI(except the journal).

And with Mods MW is much improved, but the same can be said for Oblivion. And because of the OB engine there are more possibility's than MW, mods can more easily have: voice work, much more sophisticated AI for npcs, use physics and combat can be even further enhanced. But as I said before it does not matter what can be done with mods but what has been done, so if you want Oblivion style combat or physics MorrOB is the way to go. Perhaps in the future that will change but not now.

 

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Kia Ora

Great work guys I love what I seen, I just figured this would be worth a mention

for info's shake, if you don't know you can't sort it if it needs to be

 

I tried to load the esm into TES4Gecko and got an error causeing it not to load

Copied from the dialoge box

****************************************************************

TES4Gecko.PluginException: Morrowind_ob.esm: CSTY record is incomplete

TES4Gecko.PluginRecord.Load(PluginRecord.java:1243)

TES4Gecko.Group.Load(PluginGroup.java752)

TES4Gecko.Plugin.Load(Plugin.java:1309)

TES4Gecko.CreateTreeTask.run(CreateTreeTask:97)

**************************************************************

Hoping this helps, it not a winge BTW

I notice also I get an error from Bash when I do a Bash patch

BTW does the site set doublespace or somit by default?

 

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Kiwi-Hawk: wrong topic, don't know what you want to say with that... sorry.

Kefka: yep, you state some points that cannot be argued about, at least not much.  But many things depend on personal taste and what you expect.  I agree that unrealistic physics (or other stuff, for that matter) can be quite enjoyable, and that OB and MW both have strengths and weaknesses that each serve an own fan group.  I tend more to the MW faction :-).  Immersion --- well, I want to be honest in this, so don't take this as flaming or insult, but in my opinion Oblivion is widely what we call here a "blender" (German for "blinder"; something that blinds your senses by luring with grand optics and acted importance, but is quite shallow once one looks behind the facade).  Nonetheless, it is a quite nice game and a catching experience, as long as you don't expect what I understand as role-playing in the classical sense.  Eg. the dialog and barter system of Oblivion is extremely crude and rudimentary in my terms.  Again, to be honest, Morrowind didn't fully satisfy my expectations concerning true RP either, but it was closer to it than OB is.  But then, everybody has his own taste of things, and I never go mainstream just because "it" is currently "in".  And yes, being able to play Morrowind indirectly through Morroblivion is a nice thing, there is no question about that.  let me put it like this: at last, a bit of atmosphere and style in TES4 ;-)

 

Back to original thread topic, please: re-read the opening post and vote/flame/ignore :-)  I'd like to read some official reply to the indirect requests there, especially the DLC.

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Kia Ora

 

That heading says Comments and feed back right? what do you mean wrong topic?

 

Sorry if English is not your first language, what I'm saying there is that is the error out put I get when trying to

open Morrowind_ob.esm in TES4Gecko or if I try to merge some of my esps that have that in their master list.

I sort I'm feeding back that there might be an error in the master file

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These three coments:

-- with Morroblivion being an ESM, Oblivion cannot handle things too well, eg. race altering mods like Ren's or COBL Races, which get partly un-done by Morrowind_ob.esm and this in turn "enforces" diverse crashes --- ever wondered why Bethesda integrated Shivering Isles into Oblivion.esm?  That's exactly why.  You should split the Morrowind_ob into a library ESM and the actual landscape/people/quest ESP, then there would be no need anymore to load the ESM first (which clashes with diverse other mods).  You ought to change this.

-- missing Armor: Chitin greaves, Redoran Watchman armor, the other Bonemold cuirasses (Armun-An, Gah-Julan, Redoran Founder, etc), and some others

-- missing the eight official Bethesda DLC (Entertainers, Adamantium Armor, Area Effect Arrows, Ebon Ore Artifact, LeFemmArmor, Propylon Master Index, Siege at Firemoth, Bittercoast Sounds) and the addition of the "Firemoth" island chain to the Vvardenfell map


are valid bug reports and I have added them to the Bugs and Issues Tracker - please use it for legitimate issues.  The rest of the original post is opinion.

 

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