Bloat and missing files?

Attachment	Size
Errors.doc	6.06 KB
Unused Files - Morro.txt	39.42 KB
Unused Files - Imports.txt	38.13 KB

I have just run the latest (v29) Morroblivion ESM through TES4Files (a utility that scans an ESM or ESP to determine the data files used then places it all in a single folder, ready for distribution). What I did was extract all the data files for Vvardenfell Imports (and addon), the 3 Morroblivion complete Installation archives and the first Support Files archives into the same place, then placed the Morroblivion ESM in the same place and ran TES4Files on it. I had some interesting results which I want to share.

Since this forum doesn't support Spoiler tags, I will have to attach some text documents to my post. Basically,

Errors.doc lists files that TES4Files didn't find (I then removed all the entries for files that are present in the Support Pack 2 and bolded entries that I'm particularly interested in).

Unused Files - Morro.txt lists files in any of the Morroblivion archives that TES4Files believes aren't used by either the ESM or any of the meshes.

Unused Files - Imports.txt lists files in the two Vvardenfell Imports archives that TES4Files believes aren't used by either the ESM or any of the meshes.

I would really appreciate it if this matter was looked into because all the files TES4Files claims aren't used add up to 1,23GB of space spread over 3,015 files and missing files are never a good thing (incidentally, the data TES4Files claims are required add up to 1,8GB spread over 20,783 files).

Last edited by XJDHDR on 1 May 2011 - 04:01.

Files didn't get attached.

It seems that the files somehow didn't get attached to my post. I'll reattach Errors.doc to the opening post but I've already deleted the other two so I'll have to hope that my recovery software can recover those documents.

I didn't manage to recover

I didn't manage to recover the other two files so I had to rebuild them. They are now attached to the OP as well.

check the file requirements

check the file requirements again, you have forgotten to download this:

Morroblivion Miscellanesous Items & Ingredients by Eloth 87.1 MB
>>> New Download Required for Upgraded/Fixed Items and Ingredients <<<
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dw6n9zf5pu366e0/Eloth%20Misc%20Items%20%26%20Ingredients.rar

I'm sure I did. Additionally...

@Eloth

I'm positive I did install that file. Then again, I'm doing so many things wrong today that it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't. Since my ADSL is capped for 17 and a half hours a day though, I'll have to test your theory tomorrow.

I don't think your replacer accounts for all the missing files though. In particular, (correct me if I'm wrong but...) I don't think your replacer has any sound files, let alone one named "JetsonsSDoorbell.wav", nor that it includes anything related to werewolves (meshes/armor/Lycanthropy V.2/GreyWerewolfBody.nif).

Additionally, there is still the matter of 1,23GB worth of data that TES4Files claims the ESM doesn't use. If these files aren't going to used in the future, I think some serious thought should be put into removing at least some of them.

Eventually

The intention is to redo the installation files at some point. But right now things are changing so rapidly that it would not be practical. There are NO missing meshes and textures in my game; I have never seen a yellow diamond in Vvardenfell. I used Tes4files to create the downloads, including Eloth's Misc Items & Ingredients. There are some meshes in Morrowind that are not used anywhere in the game.

BSA file

So David, when we do reach some point in time where we can redo the installation files, would it be possible to compress them into a .bsa archive? At least for the 1st additional files? I think this would make Morroblivion a cleaner install, and managing it easier. But then again, I'm sure there are things I'm not taking into account.

Just want to hear your guys opinion on this. Thanks

When it Stabilizes

Currently Eloth, Hashmi, Darth South, and Henshu are all adding resources, not just mods. Anything done now would become obsolete in a copule of weeks. I'm not wild about BSA Archives. The first thing I do when I get one as part of a mod is unpack it. I do not know when I will redo the installation, but the Additional Support Files 2 is down to 1.25 MB. Not counting anythig Eloth adds to his items, which itself will probably stabilize in a couple of weeks, this is a pretty small additional download.

Here's the Elder Scrolls

Here's the Elder Scrolls Construction Set page on BSA archives: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Creating_your_Own_BSA_files

Just wondering, I can't find any disadvantages for using a BSA archive. The benefits for using the BSA archive are cleaner, smaller files and downloads, and makes it simpler to install. David, if there are any disadvantages to using BSA's, then please, by all means, let me know.

I'm not saying we implement BSA right now, you guys have enough things to worry about right now as it is. I'm just throwing the idea out there when things slow down and we can organize the files.

Disadvantages

At the moment there are several big disadvantages. If I was to wrap this up into one big BSA file, it would be over 800 MB in size, then whenever there is an addition, you'd have to download the whole thing. Downloading the whole thing every time is a very big disadvantage. Obviously, I would not wrap it into one file, but would split it into several like Oblivion. But then that means keeping track of what goes in what, of making sure they are all complete, etc. Making sure they are all complete is a huge disadvantage, and so is downloading the whole thing every time. Currently, when new content is added these need to be downloaded. There is some overlap from the time before, but when the files get too big I stop updating one and make another. The first support archive ballooned to 175 mb in about three weeks. Now the required download is 1.25 mb. When Eloth updated his miscellaneous items & plants, that was new material so it needed to be downloaded again, but once it is stable it won't need to be downloaded again. But for me, the main disadvantage, and the reason that I always unpack them as soon as I get them, is that you cannot create a new form from scratch using resources in a BSA. It's one of the quirky things about the CS, and is a royal pain. I actually have the Oblivion BSA files unpacked off to the side so that when I need individual resources I can grab them. BSA Files are designed to be used when a project is stable. New material is continuously being added to this project, therefore, BSA files are not a good fit. Media Fire has a 200 MB limit per file limit unless you get a subscription.

Ah, I see what you're saying

Ah, I see what you're saying now.

Not Really Clean & Easy

BSA Files would also not be as clean & easy as you think. BAS Files only open automatically if they are exactly the same name as the mod. That would mean I Would need to wrap everything into one 800 MB BSA file to open automatically. Or, people would need to edit their Oblivion.ini file to enable any additional BSA Files. That makes it not quite so clean and easy.

Just noticed that

Yup, yup, just noticed that. I guess Oblivion has their .ini file specifically tailored to their game and expansion packs because, as you know, it isn't oblivion.esm, it's like meshes.esm, textures.esm, and sounds.esm, etc.

So yeah, thanks for correcting me David ;)

There seem to be a lot of

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions regarding BSAs. Hopefully, I can resolve them here.

First, loose files are allowed to overwrite files in a BSA and going the BSA route doesn't mean that ALL the project's files have to be in a BSA at all times. In the case of this project, I would say that if you had to go the BSA route right now, you would package the three Morroblivion complete archives, Henshu's music and the Support Files 1 archive into the BSA with Eloth's items replacer and the support 2 archive remaining as loose files. I do agree that it is better to wait until this project has become "stable".

Next, it is true that the vanilla CS can't select resources inside a BSA. However, an OBSE plugin was released relatively recently that makes a number of changes to the CS. The plugin is called "Construction Set Extender". Amongst the many changes it makes, it changes resource selection blocks so that they give you the option of selecting a file inside a BSA. If you pick this option, you then select the BSA to open, then you get a tree-based view of all the files inside, one of which you then select to use for that object. I've personally been using CSE since OBSE v20 became stable and I say that the bug-fixes alone make the download worth it. Also note that editing a mod in CSE or even compiling scripts will not make the mod dependant on OBSE. That only happens when you use a script command provided by OBSE.

As for Media Fire's upload size limit, this could be circumvented by placing the BSA into a number of part archives. I know 7-zip can do this and I'm sure the programs used to create RAR archives (I've forgotten it's name) can do this too.

Finally, BSAs are loaded using either an entry in Oblivion.ini or via ESPs (unfortunately, ESMs can't load BSAs). However, it is incorrect to assume that a BSA must have exactly the same name as the ESP. Shivering Isles is a good example; it's BSAs have no entries in Oblivion.ini and none of them are named "DLCShiveringIsles.BSA" (the ESP installed by SI is DLCShiveringIsles.ESP), yet it's files gets loaded. The correct statement is that everything in a BSA's name to the left of the first space or dash must match the ESP name. To use SI as an example again, "DLCShiveringIsles.ESP" loads BSAs named "DLCShiveringIsles - Meshes.BSA", "DLCShiveringIsles - Textures.BSA", etc, even though the BSAs' names don't exactly match the ESP.

Since Morroblivion requires Shivering Isles, if a BSA is ever implemented, I think the best name to give it would be something like "DLCShiveringIsles - Morroblivion.BSA". If there are multiple BSAs, do something like "DLCShiveringIsles - Morroblivion - Meshes.BSA", "DLCShiveringIsles - Morroblivion - Textures.BSA", etc. That way, no Oblivion.ini entries and no specialised ESPs or anything like that.