Hey everyone,
I'm creating a Necromancer's scalpel for Thermocrius and his necromancy work for Skywind, and will be posting the progress here. Since this isn't a remake of an existing Morrowind asset, it will instead be an entirely original addition to Skywind. Right now I'm working on the concept art for it, and have narrowed it down to the design at the top. The next step before 3D production will be to fully render a final concept in Photoshop for my own reference. Any feedback, suggestions, critiques etc are encouraged.
Overall design ideas are that the handle will be fashioned out of bone (with some kind of laminate finish), and the blade obsidian. I'm not sure if I should cover the handle with some kind of grip cover, like cloth or metal plating...
Finished a first pass in Photoshop
I can't wait for final result
I have only one note to blade. I'm not sure how it is connected with handgrip. Maybe it needs sth like this in example below (First on top)
It s easier to make dagger made from one stone then.
Hm, could you give it a smoother blade?
I'd agree with Thermocrius. As a scalpel, its supposed to be an extremely sharp precision blade, and the serrated edge makes it seem more of a crude tool.
So far the list of revisions includes:
I can add some form of fastening between the blade and the handle, either an adjoining metal frame/hilt piece, or fastened with some kind of rope'like construction as shown in Lukkar's picture.
At this point I won't be overhauling the design as a one-piece scalpel since the overall design was approved before I started the final concept, and besides, what Necromancer wouldn't want a bone-handle :p (lore friendly)
I totally agree and can smoothen out the cutting (bottom) side's edge of the blade, to make it razor sharp. You guys are just referring to the blade's edge and not the rippled obsidian look of the sides, correct?
I like the look of the rippled look on the sides. The serrated edge would be great for cutting into bone, but would rip flesh to pieces and not be very practical as a scalpel.
The blade in general. Ebony is sort of like metal when forged. So essentially have it like some sort of black steel.
It's worth mentioning though, that chipped obsidian is 10 times sharper than steel can ever get :P
Key point you raise Dragomir, and I went with the design fully aware of this!
Case-in-point:
This is supposed to be ancient thing, isnt it?
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I see no contradiction if ancient/ashlander elves used chipping way to make their ebony and glass blades,
and only after thousands of years got how to make high temperature blast furnaces to melt this materials.
Ok, how about this. I'll make two versions, the one already posted, and one with a tweaked blade design. Then we'll pick one of the two. The new one is also going to have some extra hardware to give the blade a more fixed and secured fitting into the handle.
One thing you'll get from any community project, is differing opinions, always!
Thats why we have our concept lead Dragomir and resident armour and weapons expert (in real life as well). So what Dragomir approves, is what we run with.
Nicely done btw.
Just liked to point it out that I am the one making the necromancy stuff. I also know the business of cutting corpses.
Hi Grumpy,
I will definitely consult him and others whenever I do concept work for any 3D assets I'll be creating. My goal is to be one of the big contributors here, and I intend to add any work that I do for Skywind to my portfolio as well. Thanks for the feedback.
I think I might be ready to call this one done...
Therm I gave it your razor edge!
I'd suggest we don't over-analyze a single blade in-game and let the modeler do what the modeler does if it's gotten approval... as long as it doesn't look like a balloon animal of course. Critique is great and necessary but having image "I want it like this" critiques on every model ever posted is a bit tiresome to see because it often leads to standoffish arguments. To be clear, I think all the critiques in this thread are entirely valid but most of the time it's ultimately a subjective choice of style and the individuals directly involved in its creation should get the final say. For example, the knife could be fastened to the handle using numerous ways we can't see below the wrapped handle. I don't think anyone is going to think about this in-game, truly
I don't think anyone in this thread has caused issues but as a general rule, I would advise people please make their suggestion and then let the modeler decide if they want to use it or not. If they don't, please respect their decision and let it be. Especially for such a small feature in-game that has an approved concept. This ain't Vivec's Palace we're talking about after all! :) It would be best if we follow this so that we don’t give our 3d artists complexes about if it's good enough all the time.
Also, I feel like sometimes it's easy to lose perspective that this is a video game, not a historical recreation of ancient sumerian tools or how a knife would cut your sandwich at lunch (although this info useful in moderation), so let's not fuss too much on time-consuming debate of tiny details. Most players will literally think this: "sweet I gotz a necromancer'z cutting thing and it lookz awesome! What? therez a handle? I cant see it because I'm holding it..." I'm just trying to give some perspective here, no ill-will or malice intended!
TL;DR: Please make your suggestion and then let the modeler decide if they want to use it or not. If they don't, please respect their decision and let it be. :)
The blade needs to be thin to be useful for dissecting corpses. Thin and sharp. Cutting corpses is a delicate procedure.
Yep, that's also why obsidian'ish ebony seems a good choice for me here. Could go with the green glass alternatively ;) Its usefulness in combat would be pretty low due to how brittle the material is, but as you say Therm, cutting corpses is precise and delicate, so it wouldn't put all that much stress on the blade.
Only thing I'd possibly want to change in that design is to make it look more like a surgeon tool, and less like a dagger (weapon), due to difference in purposes. Perhaps lose the cross guard?
Still, considering the ritualistic nature of this item I think pushing and stylising the shape of it is perfectly fine. You could perhaps throw a few Daedric Runes onto it too, since it's probably also going to be used by the Temple to create bonewalkers :D
As for the sharpness - paradoxally it would be way sharper if it was chipped. Not even sure if necromancers could afford forged ebony. If a second design is made where the tool is forged, I suggest this type of a handle:
It's pretty elegant, and seems more tool-like than weapon. Also, the loop allows for hanging on a wall ;)
Thanks for the feedback Dragomir, I'm working on a third and final iteration right now (Like Taerkalith said, you can only scrutinize a small asset so much) so I will take those points into consideration, as well as Therm's feedback about the second version.
The third version will mainly focus on having a clean, honed ebony blade (as per Therm's request)
I also had the idea for Daedric runes being carved into parts of the handle, and think I might try that out. I understand your point about the asset being mainly a tool vs a weapon, however given the context, we know that players will gravitate towards using it as a weapon as well, therefore I'm trying to make the design well-suited to both applications. I'd like to entertain the notion of this "scalpel" being a surprisingly deadly weapon if used as such, perhaps comparable to a Daedric dagger.
Aaaaannnnd that's final. Fixed the blade, tweaked some colors, added some carved Daedric runes. Concept is done! Now to create the damned thing in 3D...
when you do the textures and coloration on the 3d model perhaps consider adding some variance to the leather/cloth (cant tell the material) like this.
P.S. love the design
Step one: Create the high-poly
Step two: Create the low-poly
Step three: Finish the asset and brace for death by critique. Personally I'm a little underwhelmed by the final result, but am optimistic that an obsidian shader that Ravanna made should be able to really make the blade pop/reflect like glassy obsidian when in-game...
/files/Adrian/files/necro_blade_beta.png
Looks great, I just read through the thread and I wasn't entirely convinced at first but seeing it now... fantastic!
I have some of that deadly critique if you'd like. :) I'll wedge it between compliments so it doesn't hurt.
Actually I really like the shape. I can't speak to your polycounts, but the model looks well built.
The textures look a little bland in that they need more contrast. If you poly painted the model, you should add more shadows and highlights to your diffuse. The normal map can give it a little more depth, but a weapon has to be very very detailed because in first person it takes up so much of the screen. Personally, I poly paint using photographs in the projection tool (old parchment works great for bone). Then I add shadows and highlights on top of that.
The shader could make a world of difference for the blade. And a normal map does wonders. The problem I have giving critique is the same one I have when receiving it; until you see a model in the game engine with all the mapping in place, you can't really say for sure what needs to be done to it. I'm just going by your render.
I agree with you, Ashking. I think this asset is getting close to completion, but not quite yet.
I am going to add more variety to the bone color (some red/brown coloration indicative of marrow stains for example).
I think I should have sculpted the surface details of the blade stronger (rippled ebony glass look in the concept), they were done pretty mildly in Zbrush, and barely got picked up by the bakes. We'll see if Ravanna's ebony shader can do it any justice in the creation-engine.
I'm also going to tweak the cloth grip, it's got some hard non-flowing angles around the edge by the straps and is giving me bad OCD. Overall I'm pretty happy with the cloth grip material though.
We'll have to see it in-engine after I tweak the things I mentioned first, and then take it from there...
wow, looks just beatiful. thumps up :)
I quit like that. I'm a fan of daggers myself when it comes to combat in TES when I play a melee character. I tend to run long swords or daggers. I would replace my green glass armor with that, because it looks better.
I rate this visual a 10/10 and I would like to mention what I'd prefer to see more of. Its always nice to have alternative versions for personal style and preference. When I dual wield in TES, I like to run 1 longer dagger and 1 shorter once (exactly as you posted). It is not that uncommon for such a stance to be used in real combat. Actual samurais would dual wield a smaller katana for use alongside the Katana as an example. Iconic characters such as Entreri from the writing of R.A. Salvatore dual wielded 2 different lengths of daggers in combat successfully. The dual wielding combat system already released by several different sources and versions could easily include that factor in.
If I were to stick with dagger and shield, though, I would run a longer dagger.
In short, I'd like to request a rendering of what that same dagger would look like with the metal past the hilt longer, but not necessarily wider. I believe both versions would look great and be put to use in game. The longer dagger could have a slower attack speed and more damage per hit for example.
If I could dual wield daggers in morrowind, I'd run 1 of each type due to my personal preference.
This is merely a suggestion and a compliment. Great work!