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Last edited by jk on 18 Jul 2015 - 06:26.
Small offtop is any chance to
Small offtop is any chance to avoid situation like in quest Duel with Bolvyn Venim. That you can simply stand between audience and you can aim enemy without any troubles, meanwhile he even can't reach you? Maybe some sort of net above battle ring?
We should be able to fix this
We should be able to fix this with clever quest design. You have to enter the pit to start the fight and you'll either be unable to leave or you simply fail the quest if you do so.
Changing levitation sure
Changing levitation sure would be nice about now ;)
But yeah, I'd see about making the arena-space itself larger, or perhaps just scaling the full stadium up. The hope is that eventually the arena could be used for some scripted events as well as the duels, to make it seem more like a real arena, so more space would be nice.
It is true that the arena
It is true that the arena battle space is significantly smaller, but I am pretty sure that vanilla Morrowind's arena interior is bigger than its exterior. I will see if I can stretch the middle pit slightly more.
If someone knows the dimensions of a typical canton platform in metres, that would also be very helpful.
And about having a safety net - that can be done. Still, that would not prevent the player from levitating in a duel and getting an easy advantage.
Smitehammer wrote:
SmitehammerChanging levitation sure would be nice about now ;)
But yeah, I'd see about making the arena-space itself larger, or perhaps just scaling the full stadium up. The hope is that eventually the arena could be used for some scripted events as well as the duels, to make it seem more like a real arena, so more space would be nice.
Sth like in scale Oblivion it would be sth.
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jk And about having a safety net - that can be done. Still, that would not prevent the player from levitating in a duel and getting an easy advantage.
If net would be low enough, enemy will reach you without problem. a bit less than 2 npc height is enough
Each person could be equipped
Each person could be equipped with an item that provides levitation.
I tried to stretch the centre
I tried to stretch the centre arena a bit without scaling up the whole arena. Was not possible to make a noticeable change.
So hence the question to the lead art makers - should I scale the arena further up and redo some of the details that will be made too big to use for the reference human model (set as 1.80m height)?
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I feel like that is plenty
I feel like that is plenty big for the arena. Maybe get some shots from the player perspective (down in the pit, up in the stands, by the front door) so we can see if the scale feels right from an in-game perspective?
Good looking stuff dude!
Good looking stuff dude!
About epicness and sth like
About epicness and sth like that
I don't know on which stage you are now, but I've done quick sketch about how bigger it could be. Now is question how much space arena could take.
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Crooked walls are for purpose (arena seems a bit higher then) For the same arena pit, some obstacles could be cool (columns) to add variety to fight. Also spikes in walls could add some epicness too. Bigger space on arena could be useful for additional traps if would be enough time and will to implement them.
Thanks Lukkar, I will make a
Thanks Lukkar, I will make a new version of the model for comparison soon.
About spikes and columns and other little details - I think it would make sense to model them as separate objects. In case the arena model remains accessible from outside, we'd want the small details to be separate for LODding purposes.
Yeah it was quick sketch, I
Yeah it was quick sketch, I hope you will do sth better than that (sketch).
I tried to scale up the Arena
I tried to scale up the Arena as lukkar suggested in the concept. Not much done on the exterior, so don't judge it too harshly yet :P
However, I would like to know if the direction I am taking for the interior is acceptable. Meaning the general dimensions and shapes of things, since there are lots of details still missing.
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That looks great to me!
That looks great to me!
Open question - Do we expect
Open question - Do we expect NPCs to be able to walk between the stands? If so, there is a lot of work still to do to make the stands reasonably accessible to NPCs (the player can simply jump between stand levels)
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NPCs have daily lives, so
NPCs have daily lives, so everything has to be walkable using navmeshing.
You may want to consider high res seating as other meshes added later in CK.
Easier if your arena was created mathmatically and we can insert 1st and 2nd floor seating chunks.
Unfortunately there is no
Unfortunately there is no space at the moment for seats. Maybe seats could be added later on the top in CK as a sort of "nobles' area" along with food and drinks, etc.
I tried to figure out the best way to make the stands accessible without blowing the polycount out of the roof, and came up with a brute force method - let's just merge the angles of both surfaces :)
It is not particularly pretty, but it works. Unless someone else has a good idea?
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At least "on-wait NPC
At least "on-wait NPC teleportation" can make using of seats possible.
But there is only one way to know it - test with navmesh and seatplaces.
Even use of beds by NPC can be problematic if that's not bedrolls.
I really like in what
I really like in what direction it is going. Some additional level for upper class could be nice too. The top one could be divided on 4 sections (4 houses: Hlaalu, Redoran, Telvanni, Indoril + Vivec). What I know it is not too possible to expand vertically, so it's better to expand to horizontally. Now it seems quite big.
Idea: also if you would have high rank enough in some of houses it could appear possibility to use longue during events. Maybe even to take some bets. Option that you can't jump from longue to ordinary audience would be useful too.
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Also one solution from Oblivion was quite well designed. The long corridor leading to arena. It gives some time for speaker to announce sth and also add some epicness.
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Is possible to give audience lower mesh/texture fidelity during fights?
I have no idea how the
I have no idea how the creation kit works with LODs etc, and I also have no idea how or if the NPCs use or have LODs. But maybe there would be someway of rendering them at a lower LOD while maintaining everything else of a regular high fidelity mesh/texture? Because I feel as though if they could add a larger amount of people in the crowd it would feel so much more atmospheric with all these people cheering and watching you. ehh just some ideas and a bit of rambling.
I have no idea how the
*sorry not quite sure what happened there with the double post ignore this and carry on I spose* I have no idea how the creation kit works with LODs etc, and I also have no idea how or if the NPCs use or have LODs. But maybe there would be someway of rendering them at a lower LOD while maintaining everything else of a regular high fidelity mesh/texture? Because I feel as though if they could add a larger amount of people in the crowd it would feel so much more atmospheric with all these people cheering and watching you. ehh just some ideas and a bit of rambling.
Interiors don't have LOD, all
Interiors don't have LOD, all meshes and NPCs are rendered at the full scale. This can be optimized by using occlusion planes. Unless we are going to make Arena as a separate exterior worldspace, but that brings the problem of weather's precipitation falling through.
zilav wrote:
zilav[snip] Unless we are going to make Arena as a separate exterior worldspace, but that brings the problem of weather's precipitation falling through.
Why not setting weathers without precipitations for this worldspace ?
this is just a suggestion,
this is just a suggestion, but perhaps, the roof could be closed on rainy days, and treated as a separate worldspace, but on sunny days and so on, it could be apart of the overall vivec space.
About rain. It's already
About rain. It's already created mod for that Real Shelter.
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Opening roof could be fun but I'm not sure if it is worth of additional work. Even added it is just separate asset which can be added to existing model in anytime.
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For optimization things, the only tricks which comes to my mind are:
- make it as sth like cave. I'm not sure if it saves more power than occlusion planes.
- add clothes with with low res during fights to ordinary audience (when you are on arena or on balcony(bet)) Maybe some of them could wear even static masks :P You don't see their mimicry in further seats and crowd will be a bit anonymous. Again I'm not sure if it is worth of work. Probably not :P
The smaller ordinary fights with some schedule (if they would be) could be with smaller amount of npc. The only question is how many npc's at once can handle Skyrim engine.
It may only be the dark
It may only be the dark textures and or perspective, but the arena feels a little small to me. I'm not sure if there's anything that can realistically be done about it, but I think it look a larger / more impressive. Not sure about how to achieve that, though.