The year of the game.

Black Mesa if it ever comes out... Skyrim of course, but that's obvious... I *had* been looking forward to Duke Nukem Forever (because I'm old and remember Duke Nukem 3D fondly, in fact I sometimes break this out when I'm feeling nostalgic), but it got totally slated* so I'll wait til it's cheap on Steam.

I keep meaning to pick up Amnesia as it has a Linux version... and I'll probably buy the latest Humble Indie Bundle 'cause they're usually good little games.

Also looking forward to Deus Ex Human Revolution, but will wait for the reviews in case it's no good...

All in all, yes, plenty to look forward to!

*although it was supposed to be better on PC than PS3 so... [shrug]

For me, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3, and Uncharted 3.

My favorite series of all time are Metal Gear Solid and The Elder Scrolls. So much nostalgia in each game.

The game i wait most is Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, but it is released early 2012. I wouldnt care less about Skyrim though. I have countless of reasons why i dislike Skyrim allready, i will buy it and try it, but i doupt i will like it.

Sad to say the only thing's I'm actually excited for is Skyrim, Half Life (either Black Mesa or Ep3, pic related) and Heart of the Swarm, and the latter mostly in the hopes that Blizz will fix alot of stupid mistakes they made.

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Seferoth... Your a fan of Oblivion but dislike what you've seen of Skyrim? Did you even watch a trailer? Oblivion is as medieval cookie cutter as it get's, from what it looks like Skyrim will (much like Morrowind) have a more realistic and grand feel to it, actual cities (more then 20 friggin houses), diverse regional building styles, they're using the Unreal 3 engine, which is a helluvalot more stable then this Embryo abomination... I can go on for a while but I can't see how you can't be pumped for Skyrim if you actually enjoyed Morrowind, Morrowind to Oblivion is like Star Wars The Empire strikes back to The Phantom Menace, nice graphics but no real substance (and honestly, pretty bad dialogue).

Reason i dislike Skyrim is= No Attributes, No Classes, No Birthsigns, Less skills(Even hand to hand was removed!), Even more simplified equipment system(Cuirass and Greaves are unified in Skyrim, so i cant remove my shirt without removing my pants!?...wow such realism!), Even less diversity between races due the removal of attributes(Orc has same physical power as Bosmers...very realistic!), No Custom Spells(No Spellmaking), I dont even like Dragons...i find them very cliched,boring and mainstream, etc, i could continue this list for quite some time, but i guess you got the point. Skyrim looks like Fallout 4: Skyrim in my eyes and i dont like Fallouts. I want deep and complex character/class customization options as seen in Daggerfall(especially Daggerfall),Morrowind and Oblivion. I have right for my opinion and my opinion is that Skyrim atleast for now looks like a very bad Elder Scrolls game. Also,yes i have played the original Daggerfall,Morrowind(for many years) and Oblivion(duh!) and my favourite Elder Scrolls game is easily Oblivion. Once again, i have right for my opinion and i should not change my opinions towards Skyrim or Oblivion becouse of other peoples opinions.

Edit: Yes i have seen the Skyrim Trailer and 14 Minute long Demo.

Edit2: Skyrim uses Creation Engine(Bethesda's in house developed) not Unreal 3 Engine. Morrowind and Oblivion uses Gamebryo Engine.

Either you don't have all the information or you jumped to conclusions where you should'nt have.

There are attributes, just less, as I understand it they shoved a couple together (3, so I'm guessing a Mage, Warrior and Thief attribute). It's a bit simplified but because you also get a "perk" system (what's called skills in most D&D based games) that itself appearanrly levels. And Classes mean very little to me as I generally just made a custom anyway, which is basically what this game does. And on the removal of abilities, things like athletics and acrobatics have just been turned into something all characters have (probably determined how strong it is by the associated attributes and the amount of use). And I really don't understand the fuss about hand to hand, if it's even deleted as I can't find a source, I never had a desire to punch something I could slice and only used it when a quest demanded it.

There are birthsigns.

Cuirass, greaves and clothing are a different matter you will most likely be able to mismatch pants, the reasons they state for going to this system for armor though is because mismatched cuirass and greaves generally look really bad, because it held them back in their armor design (everything needs to look OK with everything else), because it forced them to make LESS armors (yes, appearantly there will be way more types then any previous incarnation) and because it was lagging up the game with people, making the bigger cities possible.

And an orc and bosmer may have the same strength at level 1 but I assume they have different speeds of levelling the strength attribute, not to mention that they still have racial abilities, which will most likely play a larger role.

Spellmaking is not out, you can't make a spell anymore though with multiple effects, they had to get rid of this purely because they made a way more awesome dual wielding magic system where you can combine spells.

And really, your talking about boring cliche when comparing Skyrim to Oblivion? Skyrim has from the couple of minutes we've seen already had huge mammoth's, in full freakin size herded by giants, god knows what else it has. Name me 1 original Oblivion creature that wasn't ripped from Morrowind? Oblivion is just a load of vampires, ghosts and ogres. Not to mention that the Oblivion main quest is just horrible, Linear as you can get (god knows how many bugs or stuck quests I've had because I felt like figuring shit out on my own instead of following their quest markers) with a plot that consists of boring characters and ungodly amounts of padding with Oblivion gates, sewer levels and stupidly long and uninspired dungeons.

And your comparison to Fallout 3 in graphics is just downright retarted when the other game your talking about is Oblivion, which, hurr durr, is made in the Oblivion engine by the same guys.

I'm not sure why your hating on the Fallout games by the way because all the Fallouts I've played (everyone cept 1) had MORE customization then Oblivion.

And do you know what a discussion is? I'm not telling you you need to change your views for my sake, I'm giving you reasons and hope they sway your opinion or show you the fallacy of your ways, if you don't wan't to discuss you should either say so or not respond.

Respond to those comments of Skyrim if you want, as there's not enough information floating around arguing either way is premature as most of the theorising is done by people who have no affiliation with Bethesda.

What I'm more interested in is what makes you like Oblivion more then Morrowind though? Because honestly, the only thing Oblivion did better was fancy graphics, the rest was just a watered down version of Morrowind (ALOT smaller province, tiny and less cities, tiny populations, monotenous quests that generally only have 1 way of solving, less dialogue, alot shorter and sooo much padding).

I hav'nt even met someone in person who was'nt incredibly let down with Oblivion after having played Morrowind. Does Oblivion have some sentimental value?

Only attributes in Skyrim are Health,Magicka and Stamina. So no Strength or Speed variables of any kind. There are no Birthsigns, just Standing Stones system thats ripped from Oblivions doom stone system. Bethesda informed that there are 82 spells and no possibility for custom spells in Skyrim. Anyway, why i like Oblivion more then Morrowind you asked, here is the quick info for that. Oblivion has better graphics(eye candy is allways good), near perfected soundtrack, Melee,Stealh and Magic system are much better in Oblivion then those clumsy systems in Morrowind, Respawning Dungeons(There were not so many in Morrowind), Radiant AI(there is practically no AI in Morrowind), Oblivion Gates and Oblivion Invasion storyline(yes i liked it, it was much more intense and intresting then Nerevarine prophecy storyline, Bethesda could have done better job on Oblivions storyline, but still i like it more.), Quality of things(yes Morrowind might have more content, but Oblivion easily defeats Morrowind with variety in quests, In Morrowind its mostly fetch this or kill this), Cyrodiil(i prefer Cyrodiil over Vvardenfell, why? I love the lush forests and the realistic breathtaking environments of Cyrodiil.), MODS(Oblivion has so much better mods, like Elsweyr and Morroblivion), then comes the most important thing of them all...the fun factor, allthough the fact is that Morrowind has more content when it comes for Equipments,Guilds or variety of Dungeons, i still have more fun with Oblivion, and it does not matter how good Morrowind is, or how much content it has...if its not as fun to play as Oblivion. Oblivion also feels more polished and complete experience for me. Also i can have best of the both worlds with Morroblivion so why Morrowind would be better?. By the way, Cyrodiil is much larger then Vvarfenfell, Cyrodiil is 16 Squaremiles and Vvardenfell is 10 Squaremiles and Morrowind had 1000 NPC's when in Oblivion there are over 2000 NPC's... check your facts before claiming anything. By the way, below is the list of non-Morrowind ripped enemies.

MONSTERS NOT RIPPED FROM MORROWIND.

Daedra:(Some were taken from Morrowind, but some allready existed in Daggerfall and Battlespire.)

(Giant)Rat: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Arena/Daggerfall)

Slaughterfish: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Daggerfall)

Deer: Not ripped from Morrowind

Mountain Lion: Not ripped from Morrowind

Ogres: Not ripped from Morrowind

Minotaurs: Not Ripped from Morrowind

Trolls: Not Ripped from Morrowind

Xivilais: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Battlespire)

Spider Daedra: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Battlespire)

Flesh Atronacht: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Daggerfall)

Nether Lich: Not ripped from Morrowind

Lich:Not ripped from Morrowind(From Daggerfall)

Wraiths of all kind: Not ripped from Morrowind(Daggerfall had some wraiths)

Willow-The-Wisps: Not ripped from Morrowind

Land Dreugh: Not ripped from Morrowind

Skeletons: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Daggerfall)

Zombies: Not ripped from Morrowind(From Daggerfall)

Aurorans: Not ripped from Morrowind

Allmost every Shivering Isles enemy.

So you see, most of Oblivions enemies are unique or from far older Elder Scrolls games then Morrowind. For the second time...check your facts before claiming anything. Anything else you want to know or me to teach you about Elder Scrolls?

Actually, I said there where 3 attributes to level, going by the clearest article on the matter: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/04/18/skyrim-skills/ We can assume that if they wanted to skip the trickle down effect, which they say, strength, like the example they give with intelligence to magicka will simply be tied to either fatigue or health, and speed is a seperate variable handled by a skill that every character gets.

As you don't fact check I'm guessing you did'nt read into the standing stones but since the skills are close to attributes in this game and they give huge skill gaining boosts the standing stones pretty much are birthsigns, ones that you can switch and have nothing to do with oblivion stones.  http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian_Stones

I have no idea where you've seen Bethesda telling you there's no custom spell, they've only said that there where 85 basic spell effects, ie a 50 pt fireball = a 100 pt fireball. And alot of threads that theorise about wether it's there or not (and as there is enchanting and those are practically the same systems it would be strange).

Morrowind and Oblivion soundtrack are so similar that comment just sounds rediculous, it's the same guy who rehashes a couple of things and makes a couple of new ones, they're both great soundtracks but their style and variety is so similar saying one is far better is bound to be completly subjective.

The meelee and magic system is almost identical and if a magic light to see if you're observed or not is what you need to be able to do stealth I'd say immersion is not what you care about.

Respawning dungeons? In a game where every dungeon is either generic cave or generic ayleid why would you want them to respawn? If I leave a cave I wanna be sure everything's good and dead so I'm done there.

Oblivion AI was still shit, I could trap NPC's just as easily and they did just as stupid shit as in Morrowind, with the addition that characters will have absurd conversations about mudcrabs now that completely break the immersion. Name me one good thing about radiant AI that was'nt already in Morrowind.

You actually liked closing the same looking depressing bad loot giving gates? Good gods. Storywise the Oblivion storyline can be cleared in a couple of hours (did it a couple of weeks ago) its basicly an interesting beginning with patrick stewart and then PC do everything while Martin sits on his ass. Get this item and go to that dungeon, most of them even from the same quest giver, and with only one way to do em, goodbye sense of ingame freedom. The allies for Bruma quest is pathetic game padding without it mattering an iota for the storyline.

And please go play the Morrowind MQ again, it has you running around from quest giver to quest giver from barren ashlands to green hills, don't feel like doing a quest for a certain NPC and you need an item from him? Steal it. Feel like killing a living god and then still saving Vvardenfell? Go for it. In Morrowind your winning the continent for you by becomming their Hortator or Nerevarine and actually feel like your accomplishing these things by working through the bureaucracy of the Houses or the customs of the Clans, in Oblivion you save the world because Martin and his group of circlejerkers tell you to. What I find even more amazing is that even though you work the entire game for Martin at the end you still don't really care when he dies, while I actually felt a bit saddened when Caius left.

There is some variety in some thieves guild quests I suppose, a couple of inventive Mage's quest but the rest of the Oblivion quest is just fetch object or Morrowind rehash.

Graphics are all fun and stuff but I think what you miss is that Oblivion is extremely one dimensional, the variety of nature outside is about as big as Solstheim, and there are 2 types of dungeons, Oblivion had some nice graphics, but did'nt do much with them, the first time you see a beatiful sunset your astounded, but by the 3rd time the feelings gone, in Morrowind, you could see that sunset in 4 different climates, 4 times like it's the first.

Also, Oblivion does'nt have a set number of NPC's, most are procedurally generated when you get near them and have no actual personality and will never be seen again. Morrowind on the other hand has over 3000 NPC's. Even though in Oblivion if you keep walking around enough you could equal the amount of Morrowind NPC's, but you still could never get a crowded street, because only so much can spawn around you without lagging the game hard. And Oblivion cities don't house that much people, even if you add the generated ones, just compare walking through Sadrith Mora to walking through Anvil.

Also, you should probably leave mods out of a discussion about the merits of the games itself, I'm not telling you to go play Morrowind now that Morroblivion is out for gods sake.

Altough you pulled the NPC numbers out of your ass the size thing is correct though, the funny part is that Cyrodiil is reeeeaaaallly empty, Morrowind has over 400 distinct places, caves, towns, cities etc, Oblivion has a bit over 350 mapmarkers, subtract outside markers and extra etrances into cities and you come up with about 300 places.

16 miles 2 dungeon types 300 places 1 type of nature

10 miles 4 dungeon types 400 places 4 types of nature (all of this excluding expansions)

You see why everyone thinks Cyrodiil is tiny and all looks the same? You just forget how big it is because it's just mindless travelling (without fast travel it would be unplayable).

And I'm real happy you know how to make a list but I asked you about ORIGINAL non-Morrowind creatures, for gods sake I even put troll in my list.

The point is that your whole list is full off fantasy cliches, I'm talking about ORIGINAL creations, y'know, like the silt strider, nix hound, kwama's. You just quoted a Tolkien novel cast (yes Xivilai and Spider Daedra are uninspired rehashes as well).

And Shivering Isles had some interesting creatures if you compare em to Oblivion, but I was'nt talking DLC and a Balliwog or one of those tree creatures is pretty boring compared to a godamn cliff racer or a netch bull (not to mention the half animal half machine Tribunal machinations).

Yo dawg I hear you liked fact checking so I sent you some facts so you can check your facts while checking your facts.

Our discussion isnt going anywhere, its again matter of opinions. You tell me your opinions and seem to try to convince me that Morrowind is better, and i try to explain you why Oblivion is better game. Also you told that you have never met any Elder Scrolls players who has not complained about Oblivion, have you ever read the reviews about Oblivion? Every single official review about Oblivion are considered positive. About those generic NPC's, Morrowinds "Bandit" npc's are nothing more then named even more generic NPC's which hardly drop anything usefull. Xivilai and Spider Daedra unoriginal? So the Nix Hound which looks like mutated dog is original? Or kwama Forager which is looks like a leech, Shalk which is just a big beetle and Cliff Racers which are just a flying prehistoric birdies are SO Original and Unique!. Ummm, i cant even comment that. Also that soundtrack comment of yours was one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard, its like saying hey every single Final Fantasy soundtrack is equal, becouse they have a same composer. Or any album for a band like Metallica is equally good, becouse they had same composers...it does not work like that!. You talk like Morrowind did everything perfectly, it did not. When comparing to Daggerfall, Morrowind is just as hollow as you think Oblivion is when compared to Morrowind. Its this special hate&love relationship that we TES fans have. Daggerfall fans thinks Morrowind is abomination, and Morrowind fans thingks Oblivion is abomination. I just happen to be special case in all this, i love Oblivion, and i will defend it to my grave, its the BEST game i have ever played and most likely the BEST game i will ever play.

Ps: Making things from your head..huh? Look whos talking!. I still remember playing Oblivion and seeing places like, Forest,Swamps,Snowy Mountains, Hills&fields, Oblivion Realm,etc. Quite much more then one...dont you think?. I can also list quite vast number of different kinds of tilesets used in Oblivions dungeons, and believe me its waaay over 2!, so whos pulling numbers out of his...lets keep this civil...shall we? Having discussion is one thing, but making numbers up so the game you like more could shine, bashing other peoples opinions and quite frankly even starting this petty "discussion" is not that professional behavier. I just said i like Oblivion more then Morrowind, and i dont like the changes made in Skyrim. So, it could be best if we drop this subject...shall we?

RADIANT AI FEATURES NOT FOUND IN MORROWIND!

NPC's could actually use DOORS and actually come out of their houses or go in them!

NPC's realises their surroundings better.(Not just standing around, when massmurderer attacks town)

NPC'S eated,drinked,sleeped,worked and had schedules. Making world feel much more alive.

NPC's Actually talk to each other in Oblivion. Its better then complete silence and not doing anything like in Morrowind.

Also you gotta understand that Oblivion was FIRST game ever to try to achieve such ambitious AI in a game. So they did not manage to bring all the features they wanted, but so what? It was step in the right direction, and Radiant AI is still a kickass AI system and i dont understand why anyone would like NPC's AI system of Morrowind. Dialogue i do understand, its far better in Morrowind, but at Daggerfall its even better then in Morrowind.

It's kinda funny how you act like you want to take the high road and then react to all my points anyway (the ones you think you can answer at any rate).

Because we're cluttering up a perfectly harmless thread and this is not the first time this happens I'm creating a thread to post out further walls of text.

http://morroblivion.com/forums/the-lounge/off-topic/1943

I'll be debunking your silly points right there on the first page in just a bit.

See you there.

*Facepalm* I have allready told my opinions and im not gonna change them. So im going to go and play Oblivion now, and act like you did not just create a topic for fighting and flaming(thats not very professional or mature). Okay, im going now...bye!

Ok, so you prefer that this discussion rips up this thread? That's just wonderful.

If you fear that I'll take down your childish arguments (using the word mature, cute) again, fine. Just know you where flaming just as hard (and even the ol' high road into flaming).

And yes, I created a thread to move this discussion and any that will follow, y'know to not clutter up this thread with walls of text anymore that you love to resort to as well.

Edit: Not wanting to destroy this thread but not being able to let absurd statements such as that stand I shall continue this via PM.

Man, I was hoping to see some more fighting :D

It's funny though, because as I do like Morrowind more than Oblivion, I agree with a lot of things from both arguments.

Suffice to say it's good the rest of the debacle did'nt get posted.

Perhaps we can create a thread specifically for this discussion at some point to not mess this one up and to be able to do this in a more civil and structured manner, waiting a while would probably be a good idea though.

De gustibus est non  disputandum…

....

For anyone else who has'nt learned latin and is too lazy to google, it means “one must not dispute about tastes.”, and thank you for using latin and making me look it up, how wonderfully pretentious of you. Not that I have any doubt you had to google it yourself (suddenly you can spell AND use capatalisation? lol).

And thank you for clearing that whole thing up, y'know after it was already cleared the first time.

What would be good now is people commenting on the OP instead of trying to sound smart. So, what games are you looking forward to Lynx?

Keep it civil please you guys. http://morroblivion.com/forums/announcements/47

Wodan, it may be because Lynx's native language is not English that he posted that.  A lot of people know Latin, especially if they had a Catholic upbringing.  There are a lot of people on here who are not native english speakers (which is why I provided the google translate bar on the side)...

Thermador, normally I would agree with you.

However, having worked through about 10 of his bug reports (and closing more then half because they where not bugs) I've been able to summize a couple of things:

1: He does not understand punctuation, a capital letter is something that he does by feeling and the only punctuation he uses is the ellipses, unless your used to Chinese or some other non western script he should have a basic understanding of this.

2: He speaks english at a non-english high school level.

3: He uses alot of emoticons, especially those of the XD and ;D variety.

4: He never spell checks anything he writes.

I think you know where I'm going with this, suffice to say I do not buy him not googling for that. And the only reason to put a condascending comment in latin is to make it even more condascending.

Also, perhaps it's my firefox, flashblock or adblock but I did'nt see a google translate button.

I dig Lynx's latin. Also, while proper grammer really makes a post nicer, it isn't a site requirement.

I also think that Seferoth brings up a good point. Both of you guys were citing some good sources, and I skimmed most of your guys's back and forth because it was educating me. However, I don't think you can lay down a law that says Oblivion is better than Morrowind, or vice-versa. Seferoth is right here: its opinion based on different facts. I respect Seferoth for standing up for his opinion.

Alright, I have no authority here, and I'm not ganging up on anyone. I just wanted to stick up for Seferoth and Lynx, because I think they're alright people....

If Wodan feels that his ego is growing by writing things like this, then let him write. I just wanted to help and so I see a man who looks like pikaczu (that what we call this kinda of creature here in Poland...)and cling to everything...  Honestly I have it in black #####. Thank You all: D
P.S. If you do not know the basics of Latin ... then be shame ... I would be ashamed if I didn't know the basic latin ... It would be nice if You could have at last a little culture and a pack of McDonald food for your nerves ...

Well, I am excited about Skyrim one way or another.;) We'll get to see first-hand if we like it or not after 11-11-11.

And I am excited to start playing Morroblivion's quests as I had missed out on Morrowind when it came, and after Oblivion, taking up Morrowind was hard considering its graphics and combat. Trying to get to Morrowind's story in Oblivion's engine is why I love Morroblivion!

I agree Anithinks! Thanks for getting us back on topic.

The first time(s ) I played morrowind I could never really get into the story because I was always getting mixed up and never knew where to go. That really turned me off from the game because I got sick of allways having to research in and out of game... I love that morroblivion looks so much nicer, I love the better combat, and I love the quest targets, lol. I think your last line says it best.

Skyrim's got me nervous, but from what I've heard of it from them, and from trusting Todd, I'm hoping for the best and mostly excited.

Really now Lynx? You can understand latin but are unable to form a coherent english sentence or the use of the most basic of punctuation?

I would love to go deeper into your post but it's barely comprehensible.

Stay in school.

Sorry but I know my value, and discussion with you is worthless(seeing your earlier posts you are despot...so there is no discussion at all). and so on there is a problem with you that You argue on everything (cleaning topics and all that things, and even You don't have culture, to accept other liking) if so...then why do you do this? If you work on morroblivion because You want to help, then please be more patient. There is no people who know everything and still modesty is more appreciated than lack of culture....
You are the one who is having problems. Clean your mind and ripe or as you said stay in school forever.

Im Playing Morroblivion because I like, the series of elder scroll and so on I would like to test the game ; ) It would be more fun for playing for other players later - and that's what we all want ?

Have nice day all :)