Idle Banter II: The Expansioning

Step 3:

This process for formatting your work may look a little intimidating here, but it's actually really easy. Attached to this document is a template that you will be putting your writing into. It is separated into seven distinct columns, labeled as follows:

Placeholder Filepath, Text, Speaker, Location, VA Directions, Extra Condition, Extra Condition

• The "placeholder filepath" is the really the only complicated column to fill out. We'll get back to that one.
• Unsurprisingly, the "text" column is where you'll put the lines of dialog. One very important note, ONLY PUT ONE SENTENCE IN EACH TEXT CELL. This is important for when we later do subtitles. So, for instance, if an NPC says three sentences in a row, that will count as three separate entries. Exceptions can be made if the sentences are just fragments or otherwise very short (e.g. "Wow. What a night."), but generally this rule will always hold true. Each line shouldn't go beyond 139 characters (the subtitle limit), but it's pretty hard to hit that with a single sentence anyway. As long as you're keeping with one sentence or a few fragments per line, you'll be fine.
• Under "Speaker," just put the name of the NPC who is saying that particular sentence.
• For "Location," put the cell that the conversation is taking place in, as well as the exterior location. For instance, "mages guild, Balmora." In this case, your location should be the same for all your lines. But this is still important for implementation in the future, so bear with me.
• "VA Directions" is where you put any notes for the people that will eventually be reading these lines. For instance, if you wanted to stress that a line is said sarcastically, or excessively sad, you would put that there.
• The "Extra Condition" columns are for special factors in certain lines of dialog. Generally, you won't have to worry about putting anything in these boxes. But if you feel like having some quest-specific dialog that requires some sort of criteria to occur, this is where you'd handle it. For instance, if you wanted dialogue that required the quest 'For the Love of a Bosmer' to be completed, all you need to do is put this information in one of the "Extra Condition" columns. There are two, in case you run into dialog with multiple conditions that have to be satisfied. Please also note that if a whole conversation has this exception, you have to label EVERY SINGLE LINE of that discussion. Try not to have too many of these kinds of special conditions if you can, as it takes more work to implement. The simpler, the better.

Okay, the last thing to worry about is the "placeholder filepath" column. Your entries should have this format:

[IB][Location][Cell(if applicable)][conversation#]_[lineofconversation#]

IB: This is just an acronym for "idle banter," for sorting purposes. Be sure to always write "IB" at the beginning of these.

Location: The city or area that the line is spoken in. Note that this is not the same thing as the cell. Things that might go in here include Vivec, Balmora, etc. No specific buildings, though.

Cell: Now THIS is where the cell goes. If the conversation takes place outside, do not write anything here, just leave it out entirely.

Conversation#: This number is to differentiate which conversations inside a certain cell are which. Just start at "1" for the first conversation in that cell, and then start counting up for the other conversations.

Lineofconversation#: This number is to put all the lines of a certain conversation in order. Again, just start at "1" and count up. Also note that this number and the conversation number are separated by an underscore, "_". It's important to include this so we don't see conversation 4, line 6 (4_6) as conversation 46.

Also to note: Do not include the brackets in this line.

So, with all this in mind, a filepath name might look something like this:

IBVivecElvenNationsCornerclub3_7

This would be the seventh line of the third conversation taking place in the Elven Nations Cornerclub in Vivec.

So, basically, you need to follow this format for all your interactions on your excel document before you submit it. This will make things much easier for us in the future, I promise. If it's easier for you, you can also write everything out in a word document first and then transfer it to this formula. 

Once you're done, all that's left is Step 4, which is just the process of posting it here where I and other writers can review it. Be sure to download the attached template and put all of your work in that format before submission. It's more than likely that we'll ask you to go back and edit a few things for us, and that's only natural. Getting the writing just right takes a few tries, even for the best of us. I only ask that you bear with me and my constructive criticisms on any of your submissions.

OKAY, THAT'S EVERYTHING!

If you have any questions, just let me know and I'll do my best to answer them! Sorry if this seems like an information overload right now; I just can't think of a better way to to get all the info out there. Below are all the links you'll need. Happy writing!

The Signup Sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dsrnCLPUkix8a8vF3QKxoD_C_fWBwB0Ur9lF45eY8o8/edit?usp=sharing

The Template  Download can be found just below, as an attached document.

Okay, the document should be editable now. Sorry about that!

And you're more than welcome to take the Shrine. :)

Okay, answers to some questions:

You should write your lines in your own excel document that can be posted as an attachment on this thread. The reason I don't want it written in a large reference sheet is because it makes any writing that people have done much harder to find for the sake of editing. By each author submitting a separate document (that still matches the format of the reference), it's very easy to review their work and any changes they've made. Then, when an author's writing is done to satisfaction, it can be fairly easily copy/pasted to a larger compilation of all the lines. Really, the reference page I gave you should not be edited at all; it would cause substantial confusion otherwise. I may just change that document to non-editable so that nobody gets confused.

Taerkalith, that's a good idea on the template sheet. I'll draft that up and put it in the original post.

Sputnick, in regards to your question, I'd say that it's probably safe to bring outside characters into your scenes, but try not to do it too frequently. In fact, if you're going to do that, I'd ask that you frame it as the people in your cell going outside to interact with NPCs. It's a given that all NPCs will leave their houses at some point, but it's not guaranteed that a specific NPC will enter a specific building. So if your NPCs to interact with others, that's fine to do, but just make sure it doesn't take place in the building. I hope that makes sense.

Okay, review time!

First off, some advice for all of you that I forgot to mention earlier. We really can't have idle banter conversations that involve more than two people. It just adds another layer of complication for implementation that takes too much time to deal with. I've noticed that most of you have at least one conversation that has that, which will unfortunately have to be changed. Sorry I didn't bring that up until now, my bad. Oh, also, if you're giving VA directions that are supposed to carry over across multiple lines of an NPC's dialogue, you should label each line as such. When all the idle banter is collected, lines will be broken up, and VAs aren't necessarily going to have the context of earlier lines at their disposal. Now, for the actual reviews:

SkeptixMessiah: I really like it so far! You've got a nice balance of the dramatic and the lighthearted in there. I especially like what you've done with the VA directions; that level of depth in the instructions really brings out the dialogue. My advice for you: find a way to make that initial three-person scene into a two-person (or perhaps even break it up into two distinct conversations on the subject), and maybe add more solo lines for the characters. You've captured the spirit of NPC "muttering" very well, and I'd like to see more of that.

Asticol: When I was reading your lines, I liked some of your ideas, but there were a few glaring issues that really stood out to me, which somewhat detracted from the experience. First of all, you really need to make sure that your grammar and spelling are spot on in these drafts. It helps reviewers take your writing more seriously, and it saves editors a lot of work in the future. Secondly, under no circumstances will we be adding quests with this idle banter project, and we most certainly shouldn't be writing dialogue around quests that will likely not exist. The "extra conditions" column is something that's meant to be used sparingly at best, because it adds a layer of complication for those who have to put the interaction in the game. Only use it if you feel it's for a very good reason, and definitely don't use it to pitch a quest idea. Oh, and one more thing to think about. This is much less significant an issue, but it's still something to keep an eye on. Generally, you'll want to avoid excessive shouting or truly heated debates among NPCs, like the one you have between Galsa and Nerile. It just... doesn't look good when you see two stationary NPCs shouting at each other. Plus, these are conversations that will often be going on in the background, that the player can either listen to or ignore. And if the conversation is too loud and abrasive, it can actually become annoying to the player. Calmer conversations tend to be better as a result.

Miqueias: You've done a good job with these lines! Just a few things to point out. First of all, like Taerkalith said, you need to be very careful that you've gotten all the NPC lines spelled correctly. "High Ordinater" should be spelled "High Ordinator." Fixing small stuff like this can save the people who have to implement this later a lot of trouble. Also, make sure you have those VA directions repeat where necessary. For instance, in conversation 4, Tadera should sound concerned for more than just the first line. Concerning your question about Alvan, I'd say that you should write those lines as well. Just be sure that you write in the "extra condition" tabs to specify when he has and hasn't left the house. But since you don't want to overlap too heavily with whoever's doing the miscellaneous section, I wouldn't make him interact with any NPCs out there. Just give him a couple lines to mutter to himself, maybe.

Entreri: Good stuff! Like I said to Asticol, you might want to be careful about NPCs like Afer getting too loud. But really, with your previous experience with idle banter, you pretty clearly know what you're doing, and I'm honestly not too worried about you. One REALLY important thing though, is that I think you may have messed up a little on the ID labeling. The way you have your solo lines formatted implies that they should all be read as part of the same conversation (1_1, 1_2, 1_3, etc). I assume by how unrelated some of those lines tend to be that that's not what you intended. Every distinct line should have a different first number (1_1, 2_1, 3_1) in order to make sure that they happen independently of each other. Also make sure that your "extra conditions" are attached to EVERY line of the conversation that depends on it.

Dr. G: Wow, you wrote a lot! And it's quite good, too! You've captured the spirit of idle banter very well, and there's not much that really needs changing here. One thing to be sure of is that you're not involving the player in any of the conversations. These are conversations that can be taking place as long as the player is in the cell, not necessarily when the player is nearby, which means that certain lines like Antonius' sarcastic statement on the weather could seem really out of place under the wrong circumstances. Also, and this is getting really nit-picky, but be careful of your spelling in just a couple places ("alter" is to change, "altar" is the thing you pray at). Besides those minor things, I don't think there's much in your writing that needs to change.

Review Session #2!

Miqueias: Boy, you're really powering through these! You've done enough with Sadri Manor I think, and I'm happy to mark that one as complete. Small issues like grammatical stuff and typos will be addressed in a further stage by editors. The Frostmoth general quarters could use a little cleaning up, though. First of all, I'm generally wary of giving lines to generic NPCs ("Guard A and Guard B"), as it might be a bit difficult to implement conversations between what are essentially the same NPC. I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of that, but perhaps Taerkalith can provide some insight on that front. For now, though, I'd just advise to not do that too heavily if you can help it. That being said, not all is lost! Because there are actually some specific NPCs in the general quarters that need some lines, Saenus Lusius and Gaea Artoria (she's in the upper level, but that still falls under your territory). Perhaps some of these lines can be re-purposed. You'll probably also want to add some lines relating to the quest that involves these two, "The Frostmoth Smugglers." Oh, and one last thing, that cconversation about Red Mountain erupting seems a little to heavy-handed of a hint, considering that everyone playing Skywind will have played Skyrim and know exactly what you're poking fun at. Perhaps a bit more subtlety, like "I wish it would get warmer around here" or something like that.

You're also missing some NPCs for your Godsreach Miscellaneous, such as Taren Andoren or Eno Romari. Have you been using the UESP wiki? It's a great resource for finding full lists of NPCs in any given location. It would also be good while you're at it to give the NPCs some solo lines here and there.

Dr. G: I bow my head to you, good sir; you have bested me in lore. I can definitely appreciate a writer who does his research. But seriously, this stuff is really good, and I'm happy to accept it as it is right now. I encourage you to claim some more cells if you haven't already.

Laertes: Ah, Laertes! It's just like the good old days. I honestly don't have any decent advice for your writing, it's pretty much perfect as it is. But that's hardly surprising; you're an old pro at this. I trust your writing ability and experience, so I'm happy to take them in their current form.

SkeptixMessiah: The vacant manor is looking great. The docks are pretty good on first submission, too. I think you've pretty much got the hang of what we're looking for, and I'm not really seeing anything to complain about. So I'm happy to let both of those pass inspection. I hope you've signed up for more!

Entreri: Yup, looks like everything's fixed. I like the extra conversation, too. Document approved! There are still spots open if you want to claim a couple more!

Hey everyone! Sorry there haven't been any reviews lately, but I've been pretty busy the last week or so with non-Skywind stuff. Things should clear up by the end of the week, though, and I can get back to the reviews. In the meantime, don't hesitate to grab up more cells! I'll be able to review them eventually, I promise!

Okay. Let's do this. Again, sorry for the delay, everyone! 

Twenty: The lines look as good as ever. One piece of advice: I'd tone down Helseth's shadiness just a little bit. In the game, he's pretty suspicious of the player at all times. As a result, I'd think that he'd refrain from mentioning any delicate matters with Tienius while the player is even remotely in earshot. If I were you, I'd try to center his dialogue around the more typical, day-to-day kingly duties, like taxes and whatnot. That's probably more realistic than bringing up shady issues while at court, anyway.

Miqueias: Thanks for your patience in changing all those lines for the general quarters! I know that can be a bit frustrating. Getting rid of general guard dialogue was definitely a good thing. I do get your reasoning with not having any dialogue between the two actual NPCs there, though. I think what you've done is probably the right course of action there. The Godsreach is looking a lot more fleshed out as well. I was looking at Thrud's dialogue after seeing your writing, and I think you captured his voice pretty well. It's rather strange, because the game has all his quest-related lines as really broken, and all his other lines being perfectly normal (maybe we'll have to fix that at some point). I think that the balance that you found in his idle banter satisfied both of those pretty well.

Laertes: Good catch on the Llethan thing! I certainly didn't notice. I like your dialogue for the black dart gang especially; it's really fun. Also gives a lot more character to the NPCs that might as well have not had names. The lines between Thrud and Dilborn are very endearing, too. I think those are all good to go right off the press!

Entreri: You've done a good job with the caverns. I know there wasn't exactly much to go off of here, but you've done a good job making the most of it. When this is all released, I'll make a point of waiting to bash their heads in with my claymore, just for you!

There's still a few more cells to be done! Come on guys, keep up the great work!

IcarusBen, this is a great start! A few recommendations, though:

Part of the reason your writing needed so many extra conditions is because you made it very heavily related to quests. You might want to consider adding some more lines, concerning more arbitrary topics. For instance, maybe Urvel could ask Gavas what Barenziah is like, since he's apparently met her. Or even something more day-to-day, such as Gavas asking his initiate to fetch something for him. It's the more mundane interactions that make characters feel real. If all their lines just revolve around things that the player has done, it begins to feel like they exist solely for the player and not for themselves.

And one, much smaller thing. What is the purpose of the question marks for some of the VA directions? If you don't have an implied emotion for a certain line, you can just leave it blank.

Hope this helps!