Skywind modelling thread (modellers needed)

Well I converted over the Sheograd project mod, I dunno if you checked it out.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/13492#
*snickers* I wonder if adding this mesh would ruin any immersion or cause anyone to rage... No, I don't like them, I just cringed and laughed when I first found this while searching for beds.

As for your light house, wow looks pretty good for a start, and oh wow, a light house with actual light...? Why didn't the Seyda Neen lighthouse have any light in Morrowind? Is there some crazy lore story behind there, or was Beth just lazy?

...yeah...not liking this...but just my two cents. I thought we were going to stick to our underground tactics anyways?

I guess some are paranoid about a C&D letter.

Yea i figured Beth would have shut us down by now if they wanted to since they have known for a while, plus it would kind of made the converter pointless imo. I think we should have some kind of poll to see what people think, ported assets or remade and go with that its bound to split opinion. On another note i do like that new lighthouse.

I like the new lighthouse too, it just needs to be a bit more wrecked.

Yea like a slightly weathered look?

Also here is the converted Sheograd meshs. http://www.ziddu.com/download/20431303/sheogradskyrim.rar.html I still dunno if they work or not. lols!

Are you really planning to reconstruct everything from scratch? Maybe you should wait for the mod to be finish and then slowly recreate the assets once the main structure is in place (it's nice to have new meshes but if we have ctd every five steps it's not really usefull..) . The man from beth said that you can't talk about it on their forums, not that they will shut you down ok kill your families...

Just my 2 cents, I know I have no rights but I was happy to see this mod progressing. Now it will probably take ages before it's released :/ ...

I know the idea of recreating assets sounds depressing, but if this turns out the only way Bethesda will let this continue then it'll have to be done. I hope Bethesda turns a blind eye like they done with Morroblivion, but there is always that chance they won't though.

Looks good already imo, never thought the original lighthouse looked too crappy till i seen this haha. Ah so the one's the link are remade? i just assumed they were converted well thats great news :)

http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/37329 they're converted from this mod, and he said it was fine for us to use them.

Ah so thats the sheogorad mod people were talking about didn't know about that mod forgive my stupidity. :O

If you're really doing everything from scratch maybe you should do the morrowind of the 4th era? (the ministry of truth collapsed, ald run in ruins...)

Hello guys, projects are going so well, can't wait for final realeases,so i got to ask did you considered to contact some famous modders for re texturing, like mods Skyrim Relaistic Ovehaul http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/5400 his textures are just great, maybe he will like to work with you guys, or allow to use his textures, and guy which are making armor re textures (still not done completly) here is one of his mods http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/24398 And for waters you could contact this moder http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/1111 And if you decide to do this, pls let me know, i will try to find more good moders who could work for you, or share their files. 

Best regards!!

funny thing there are MANY user created mesh replacer for morrowind  nothing large scale like buildings, but alot of the misc items,trees and statics have been recreated and they look much nicer, the only thing we would need is permission to convert them :)

lets remember that the old bethesda meshes were from 2002 and on modern pc the look ugly do to  their  very low poly count.

funny thing there are MANY user created mesh replacer for morrowind  nothing large scale like buildings, but alot of the misc items,trees and statics have been recreated and they look much nicer, the only thing we would need is permission to convert them :)

lets remember that the old bethesda meshes were from 2002 and on modern pc the look ugly do to  their  very low poly count.

Heh, the new light house fits in better than the old one that's for sure. I don't know if it's the enb or not, but the wall looks kinda like it's white painted if that makes sense.

Hmm, in my opinion we must save original world meshes anyway. I want to say that it will not Morrowind, isnt it? I think we can do it, but it must not our priority. It looks really pretty cool we can create legality and unlegality versions in the future.

P.S. If new meshes will base on morrowind meshes and they will save morrowind style and atmothpere, i havent objections, but it will be long.

Eloth, I'll be honest. You've done HOLY SH!T work, and I've loved it and supported it, but frankly, I'm not liking this. It's not a true Morrowind experience. Why is the roof round? Why isn't it dark gray and built out of stone blocks like the original? It should be dark and gritty, like the old Morrowind. It's too smooth and slick for that Morrowind feel.

Phitt's (Sheogorad) assets are a good example of what rebuilt Morrowind assets should look like. They look like the original Morrowind models, except handmade and better looking.

I'm only speaking for myself, but I've always imagined the Skywind experience to be very close to that of the original Morrowind's, except with updated graphics and gameplay from the Creation engine. Again, Phitt's Sheogorad mod is a good example of this. All his assets look like the original Morrowind's, except they look DAMN good and lot better.

Another example would be Ghogiel's bonemold armor or Cryo's Ordinator armor. They don't look different from the original Morrowind's much, but they look very close and a lot better. If they looked different, people who remembered the originals would feel cheated.

I've always thought the mission here at Skywind was to bring the magic of Morrowind to those who couldn't get into Morrowind with TES3. That means keeping things looking close to the original Morrowind's, but making them look better, and bringing in the awesome features of Skyrim's engine, like combat, NPC AI, smithing, etc.

EDIT: I wanna repeat this again, I'm not the boss here, or try to sound like it, because I haven't contributed anything yet. But I think when I say this, I represent the vast majority of people who are looking at this project. Like always, I'm just throwing my advice out there. It's fine if it goes unheeded, I'll always follow this project.

EDIT 2: Also, we don't even know if our masterfile is considered an illegal asset by Bethesda. If it is, there's no point in making new meshes, since the project will always be illegal with that master, unless someone wants to also handplace all objects and generate all the land.

EDIT 3: BUT I will say, Eloth, that's a good looking model right there! (I just don't think it should be in Morrowind is all, again, just my opinion)

So here are my thoughts:

It is important to make sure we are doing everything within our power to abide by Bethesda's rules, but replacing everything could take a very long time.  I say that recreating NPCs and quests should remain the main area of our work right now, however if there is someone that, like you Eloth, specializes in meshes and textures, then they should definitely get to work on replacing some of the Morrowind meshes with much higher quality models.  Even if you want to stay underground (which I still wouldn't mind doing), you can't say no to more detailed meshes.

On replacements:  To start, we really need to make sure we make full use of the Sheogorath meshes, as I'm pretty sure he has just about everything in that mod.  Apparently a lot of the textures are stock Oblivion ones though, plus I really like Eloth's textures, so I think we should alter Eloth's textures to fit those models.  Then once we have those ingame we could look at a few other mesh replacers from the Mesh sections of the Nexus, and PES.  For example, here is completely new set of rock meshes.  Vurt has also made new trees for all the regions if we can't find a good animated Skyrim replacer. Then there are multiple misc item replacers here, here and here.  It might take some work to get permission, but surely that would be better than recreating them all.

Then, over time, any modelers that come along can replace any remaining meshes with brand new ones, modeled to look very similar to the original, just more detailed.  This should also be our general philosophy, and I am mostly of the same mind as Clint.

Though I could make a few exeptions to the keeping close rule for things that don't really fit, which I think the lighthouse actually is a good example of.  It didn't match the Seyda Neen architecture at all.  I find myself liking your new one much better than the old one Eloth.  So I'm all for using your different model.  But, you definitely have to be careful with keeping it close with more of the other meshes.

Edit: So I have a question for anyone who has actually played the Sheogorad mod.  What exactly is missing?  Just from looking at the screenshots, it appears that we need a new Hlaalu, Telvanni plant building, Redoran, Imperial fortress, and Vivec set, plus flora and rocks for all of the regions other than the Sheogorad region.  Does this sound accurate?

Also, I forgot to mention that there are many good Skyrim mods that have models that we can put to our use.  These would be especially useful for trees and other plants.

Edit2:  Just found this mod while doing a quick search for replacement models.  I can't really tell from the screenshots, but it looks like it has at least a few decent models.  Though the textures really aren't very good and could definitely use some of Eloth's awesome textures as a replacement.

I'm seeing some Telvanni plant models and Ashlander tent models as well as several that are already covered by the Sheogorad mod.

I'd say you use the old meshes as a base. it would be a huge undertake to redo everything rom scratch. existing models can be redone and I am sure there is plenty of morrowind mods that add better meshes/textures.

Mmmmm... the updated version is nice, does fit in a bit better now :)

I think people underestimate just how much of an undertaking it is to recreate everything, especially if you want it to hold any kind of quality standard people expect. 

I think we should just stay on course with the current plan and just reuse most of original assets. If people want to recreate meshes/textures thats fine, as long as its an improvement to the original and keeps the same feel.

In time we should be able to circumvent the legality issues once we can get the right tools developed to handle a simpler method for model conversion. I believe thats the direction we should go.

An easy one click installer for basic assets would be what would bring this project to the masses. Of course they would still need an additional pack for the esm and custom assets.

Sure thing Eloth, just give me a couple of minutes.

DarkAnsem: That would be great, but unfortunately that is also illegal.  You can't modify existing meshes.  All you can do is base your new model off the old one.  If you are an awesome modeller you can get it to look very similar though, so that is not an issue.

Machine:  Yeah, but remember, at least 70-80% of the meshes are already recreated by other modders.  We just have to compile, and modify them a bit and we are almost there.

Okay here is a general list.  Tell me if you want it more specific like, name every single mesh that is included.

The common building set, mudcave set, ashlander tent set, cave set, daedric set, assorted dock meshes, shacks, dwarven set, hlaalu set, holamayan, imperial set, nordic set, redoran set, stronghold set, telvanni plant pods? (ExUTUhousepodU01), velothi tower set, vivec set, many different assorted rocks, boats, railings, bridges, a silver dagger, an iron spear, 2 bottles, a bucket, a skull, bonecave set, mummies, lavacave set, moldcave set, pycave?? set (don't know what that is), sewers, beds, signs, assorted flora, a lot of furniture, and many kinds of doors.

It uses the same naming conventions as Morrowind, which I find strange.  You sure they didn't just steal them from us...... Just kidding.  Also, that is A LOT of meshes.  We are probably 90% there with these included. YES!!

And I just thought of something.  Since we are replacing all of the meshes, do you guys think we should rename them to be more like the Skyrim/Oblivion system that made a lot more sense?  Like a folder for Redoran, one for Hlaalu, one for Tombs and so on.

I just wanted to make a suggestion that was not as work-intensive for the Skywind team :( considering that they get telvanni architecture in Skyrim and, with Morrowind Daedric-Oblivion Planes-all of SI and Ayleid, it is a dream come true for me.

Question: why are we still trying to meet this legal standard of Bethesda? To be compliant with Bethesda, we would have to use 0% of Bethesda's assets: So Skywind will have:

• No Morrowind Music. Wait Clint, we can put that in, I mean there's already mods out there for it? Nope, not if you're trying to comply by Beth's laws.
• No Morrowind Voices. No more "Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Wake up" from Jiub. No more "Ah yes, we've been expecting you! You'll have to be recorded before you're officially released. They're a few ways we can do this, and the choice is yours!" from Socucius Ergalla. No more "We're watching you...scum..." from Ordinators. No more Morrowind greetings or combat taunts from NPCs at all. No more Vivec or Almalexia voices.
• No Morrowind Sounds. No more memorable sounds like opening those Dwemer doors or that unique sound of entering builidings like going into the Fighter's Guild. No creauture sounds like a winged twilight attacking you or hearing silt striders in the distance, or walking by a bull netch. No more awesome weird sounds when you walk by the giant crystals in Telvanni stronholds.

So is this is the watered down "legal" Morrowind you want, with almost none of that awesome Morrowind magic left? Start changing little things like a lighthouse isn't a big deal, but where do you draw the line? Who decides what fits in Morrowind and what doesn't? That's a dangerous and slippery path you're heading down.

I thought we were trying to bring back that awesome Morrowind experience, NOT Eloth's or yours or my interpretation of what we think Morrowind experience should have been like.

Again, this is something that should be under Eloth's Awesome Visual Mod category, but NOT under the STANDARD Skywind experience.

Again, just my thoughts on the matter. I'm not the law around here, just your inner conscience hehe xD

Now as far as us worrying about Bethesda, NOTHING has changed. Let's actually look at what gstaffBethesda told us:

gstaffBethesda

 

The policy has always been that you cannot take assets from one of our games and put it in another game... even if that game is one of ours (Morrowind to Oblivion, Fallout 3 to Fallout: New Vegas, etc). Assets could be sound files, meshes, textures, etc. As such, we've closed down discussion in our official forums in the past.

If you're creating assets "inspired" by Morrowind (or another game), that's generally okay.

If you're using existing meshes as placeholders, it's not something that could be discussed in our forums.

Thanks

No cease and desist letter in there. He's pretty much saying, hey, we see you there, if you want to be legal you have to drop use of all our assets. Otherwise, just don't post on official Bethesda/modding forums.

Or in other words, continue on as before, just don't post on Bethesda/supported forums. As Thermador has ALWAYS said. Where is the threat or warning in this message?

Hell, we don't even know if our MASTER FILE IS ILLEGAL. If it is, there's almost zero hope of the project becoming legal, unless someone wants to do all that work too.

So my opinion would be just keep to with what we've always been doing, but again, just my opinion.

Look Clint, I understand and respect your opinion, but I don't understand why you are so against this.  If anything, this is simply to use more detailed models, and make the game look more awesome.  It is not like we want to use completely different models.  We are looking for models that are very similar, just better made.  Actually, in my opinion this should have been done ages ago in Morroblivion.  For me it is NOT about appeasing Bethesda.

About the legality thing.  Here is my vision:

We would have a totally legal version up on the Nexus (assuming we don't receive any word that our master is illegal).   This would not have those sound files obviously, but it would still be quite playable.  Then on our forums we could have another small download to add those things that can't be replaced (just sounds basically).  This would allow a whole lot more people enjoy Skywind than would currently be able to.

I understood that about gStaff's message as soon as I read it.  It only says to not post on the official forums, but I'm actually kind of genuinely looking forward to new and better meshes.

 In fact, I've heard you say yourself that the Sheogorad meshes are great, so what is the harm in trying to make Skywind look better?

We could have a legal version on the Nexus (without the sounds, voices, and such). And of course we know if we remove the sounds and voices, someone is bound to make a mod that re-adds the voices and such. Hell we could host the mod here on our forum, and make it our cheap little way of getting people who downloaded the mod to visit our site. =p

As for the meshs, we should have replaced them anyway. Why would we still use older meshes, when there are way better ones out there to use. Also did I mention, they're not only better looking, but they're also legal to use! If anything, the Morroblivion guys should have done this too, some of them look a lot better, and most are made for Oblivion, so it shouldn't be that hard to replace, if they're already made for Oblivion.

Oh no! I definitely agree we should use Phitt's assets as I know they're very high quality and close to the Morrowind originals. I know because I use to be on Vvardenfell-Sheogorad team before I came here. Those were the best Morrowind models and meshes I've ever seen. I also told the Morroblivion team about these assets, but no one listened...

I've seen Silgrad Tower's assets too (I was on they're voice acting team), and they're decent. They're pretty close to the original Morrowind's. Not as good as Phitt's, but they're definitely good enough for Skywind.

So to answer your question Shadow, YES, I absolutely agree in using these models and textures! I know they keep in line with Morrowind's feel. And I am all for using models like these! But what I'm seeing in Eloth's pictures is not keeping to the Morrowind spirit. That's what I'm having beef about.

EDIT: Upon a closer look, I'm liking your lighthouse more Eloth, I like the square roof. Would it be possible to make the building look like it's built out of different sized stone blocks like the original? 

The thing that most guys seem to be forgetting is quests,they are the Morrowind story line,and without them...no morrowind in skyrim.

So even if we changed all of the other stuff to be Beth legal,we would still not win in the legal stakes,unless we used a completely new story line,but then it would not be morrowind.

So in imo we might as well just mix the old with the new [where possible] and carry on as we are.?

 Morroblivion is played world wide,and mods for it are on the nexus,so it will proberly the same for skywind,when the heat dies down or a new elders scrolls is released ,I predict that skywind will be also played worldwide and have mods for it even on the nexus,it is just a matter of time I quess.:)

Wait, we have to remove the quests too in order to be legal?

As I see it Mehh,yes,because they are the morrowind storyline written by Beth.

Gee, then we'd have to make a stand alone mod with all the quests. That would be quite annoying for people who download it from the Nexus.

Actually, I'm not so sure about that.  gStaff didn't say anything about the content in the master, only the assets we use to display that content.  Besides, technically our quests are only based off of the original Morrowind ones, with no direct copying.  If we can base new meshes off of old ones, why can't we base new quests off of old ones?

Thanks for clarifying Clint, your statement makes a bit more sense now.  Also, I had forgotten about Silgrad Tower.  That adds a few more potential meshes.

Eloth: Actually I'm really liking the new lighhouse, and I think it makes sense that the texture used would be of a similar design to the surrounding village of Seyda Neen (the texture you have on currently).  I say it just needs a few touch ups and maybe a more brick-like texture near the bottom to bring it a little closer to the original, and we have a brand new lighthouse!

So what's the backstory behind the lighthouse anyway? I knew a couple quest have to do with it, but is there any lore related to it? Also will it light up still?!

Okay, here is the list of all the possible main sources for meshes (smaller mods with only a few meshes can come later) :

Sheogorad - Forsaken Isles

Silgrad Tower

Vvardenfell Remade

The Lands of Solstheim, Vvardenfell, and Mournhold (SoVvM)

Here is what we need to do:

1: Make sure we haven't missed any big sources of meshes that we could utilize

2: Make sure that we have permission to use all of the meshes from said mods

3: Go through all of the Morrowind meshes and find all possible replacers from these sources (make sure to make note of those Morrowind meshes for which there is no replacer.

4: QUALITY CHECK! Because we will have duplicates to choose from for some of the meshes we need to go through each Morrowind mesh and the possible replacers.  Then choose the best one that most closely matches Morrowind, and if none of them get close enough, then make note so we can either modify that mesh in the future, or create an entirely new one. Note: Textures are not important, it is the quality of the mesh itself that should determine which ones are used.

5:  Retexture the new models with some of Eloth's awesome textures if the original ones are not up to par, or if they use stock Oblivion textures.

6:  Add to the main project

So I'm not really a mesh guy (or much of anything really, except moral support  :) ).  How long do you guys think it would take to go through these steps with every mesh?  It seems like it might take at least a few weeks of dedicated labor to pull it off.

Hey guys. In my opinion you could spend years and years to make new meshes for whole Vvardenfell. If you will take them from every source you can find, they could be low-quality, made by amateur 3d artists. You're talking about all this stuff so easily, and you don't even think about that half of team will get tired and bored doing so many models and other assets. What I see that only Eloth is making new models of high quality. Others just talking about Eloth will have to make thousands of new models while they will find something that may suit in across the Internet. It is like the tales of the Oz, where was several tens of generals and only one soldier under their command. Or like old russian tale: upward strains the swan, towards the skies above, the crab keeps stepping back, the pike is for the pond. There should be one leader who knows what he does and several tens of working men instead of the other way round. Those who do the job. Not just plan and command. Clint is one of most clever men here both with Eloth as far as I see. Also Mooncat has done good job with planning. But others you'd better listen and do the job for the project. Select 2-3 leaders and let them choose the destiny for the project. It would be a way much better than making a discussions in hundreds of posts here written by anyone who can register and post his opinion.

Shadow,

But the quests are copied from the morrowind CS to the skyrim CK,using the same words/locations and NPC names.

If that is ok,then anyone could for example do the same for a book by a top author.

My point is that the storyline of Morrowind is Morrowind.

I believe the Andoran team write there own quests,and that they also have Beths approval.?

Don`t take the above wrongly anyone please,it is just that I believe that unless we had a completely new story line for skywind the legal eagles could still be a problem,but what the hell..morroblivion is a success so I quess Skywind could be too.

Silgrad tower is being made for skyrim as well, you know. no need to be based on the oblivion assets.

Just select a leader who will guide you guys. It is not way to hear lot of useless advices each day and have no work done.

...I liked the original lighthouse... It felt like it fit in a small town swamp village. Covered in moss and mildew, with the wood darkened by moisture.

This looks like a lighthouse you would find at a rich beach village. Just sayin.

Yup, and thats the issue. Most modders working on Morroblivion and Skywind do not want to replace any of the origional models. I am one of them, all I really want is a tool to convert Morrowind to the latest TESV standard. Thats why a sollid plan is not working due to the two camps, those that want origional content only and those that want to upgrade and replace every model.