TES4Edit Errors (and CTDs) - Morrowind_ob-Conversation.esp?; a couple general load order/mod questions

Hi folks,

I've been using version 0.59 of the mod for a few hours, and after some initial CTDs (I think using Clearer Underwater together with MorroblivionWater was the problem, so I uninstalled the former), things seem to be OK for now. But just to be safe, I ran a "Check for Errors" on all loaded mods in the latest version of TES4Edit, and the only "errors" found were with Morrowind_ob - Conversation.esp. The errors are:

[00:00] Checking for Errors in [02] Morrowind_ob - Conversation.esp
[00:00]           Item -> [012C01D5] <Error: Could not be resolved>
[00:00]         Above errors were found in :CNTO - Item
[00:00]       Above errors were found in :Items[
00:00]     Above errors were found in :0ordinatorSwander "Ordinator" [NPC_:012604BA]
[00:00]   Above errors were found in :GRUP Top "NPC_"
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[02] Morrowind_ob - Conversation.esp

My load list - initially set by BOSS, though I did make some minor .esp ordering changes according to some forum posts I found (I forget the exact changes I made) - is:

Load Order

Oblivion.esm [SI]
Morrowind_ob.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
UOPS Additional Changes.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
USIPS Additional Changes.esp
Purge Cell Buffers - Loading.esp
Morrowind_ob - Morroblivion_Chargen_And_Transport_Mod_v10.esp
Morrowind_ob - MorroblivionTreeReplacer.esp
Morrowind_ob - ClothingReplacer.esp
Morrowind_ob - MorroblivionWater.esp
Morrowind_ob - Conversation.esp
ProtocolledDialogs.esp
Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp
MiniMap.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Morrowind_ob - Silt Striders.esp
Morrowind_ob - UCWUS.esp
Morrowind_ob - Unique Grass.esp
Morroblivion - Flora Overhaul.esp
MorroblivionNewMap.esp

Anyway, I really don't want to get 50 hours in only to permanently break a savegame due to not fixing something now - with my load order and/or these TES4Edit errors. So, any advice as to what exactly - if anything - I should do/fix would be hugely appreciated.

On a slightly different topic, I'm considering adding only two more mods: one that makes selling items to merchants easier via hotkeys for selling/"yes" etc. (I used a mod like this in Oblivion years ago, but need to look it up again in the Nexus), and one - if one exists - to constantly display the in-game date and time on-screen (maybe Darnified UI, which I already have, has a setting for this?). Any advice as to whether such mods added to my current configuration would cause problems down the road on a current save file would be great.

And a huge thanks to the devs for their amazing work. Despite the initial few hours of hassle that always comes with setting up a mod loadout, I haven't had this much fun with an Elder Scrolls game in years. Cheers!

Last edited by Mike P on 7 Sep 2013 - 08:15.

Quick update - I just loaded

Quick update - I just loaded a save game and had another CTD (as with all previous CTDs, the game loading bar reached full before crashing). I know modded Oblivion isn't exactly the most stable thing around, but I gave up on it (not Morroblivion) last year after getting 50 hours in and only then somehow corrupting all my saves... so you can understand I'd really like to fix whatever problems I apparently still have before I get too far. Thanks again!

But just to be safe, I ran a

But just to be safe, I ran a "Check for Errors" on all loaded mods in the latest version of TES4Edit, and the only "errors" found were with Morrowind_ob - Conversation.esp. The errors are:

Thanks for reporting. I'll include the fixed esp in the next update. In the meantime you can fix it yourself by dragging "Items" category for this NPC from Morrowind_ob.esm to Conversation.esp.

one that makes selling items to merchants easier via hotkeys for selling/"yes" etc. (I used a mod like this in Oblivion years ago, but need to look it up again in the Nexus)

Are you talking about Toggelable Quantity Prompt?

and one - if one exists - to constantly display the in-game date and time on-screen (maybe Darnified UI, which I already have, has a setting for this?).

I don't think that DarN for Oblivion has that option. You definitely can set this up (among many other things) with 'HUD Status Bars' mod.

Neither of those mods should cause any issues. Oblivion is generally more 'user-friendly' in that regard, compared to other Elder Scrolls games.

Your load order is really small and looks alright, except that I wouldn't advice using Purge Cell Buffers - Loading.esp (or any other PCB mod) unless you're absolutely sure you can't play the game without it.

Thanks for the quick reply,

Thanks for the quick reply, qwerty! I'll uninstall Purge Cell Buffers (I read that it's a good CTD-preventing mod in general, but if you say I don't need it, I'd like to keep things light), and will look at those mods you suggested. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how exactly to perform that fix, but if the issue's not gamebreaking, I'll probably leave it alone until you release the next update.

I am concerned about the continuing (seemingly random) CTDs I'm still getting though. They're almost always when I try to load a game, although I also just got one when I tried to exit Dren's Villa on the Dren Plantation. Any ideas as to what might be going on?

Also, one general Wrye Bash/modding question - as I mentioned, I've modified/uninstalled a few mods (including Clearer Underwater and now Purge Cell Buffers) since starting my game several hours ago. Is there any possibility at all that these changes to my ongoing save files will eventually permanently break my saves down the road? I.e., do I really need to do a completely fresh reinstall and start with a new game with only the mods I plan to use throughout the playthrough in order to be totally "safe"? Thanks!

I am concerned about the

I am concerned about the continuing (seemingly random) CTDs I'm still getting though. They're almost always when I try to load a game, although I also just got one when I tried to exit Dren's Villa on the Dren Plantation. Any ideas as to what might be going on?

Random CTDs aren't easy to troubleshoot. Sometimes they just happen with this game.

What are your computer specs? Where do you have Oblivion installed?

Also, one general Wrye Bash/modding question - as I mentioned, I've modified/uninstalled a few mods (including Clearer Underwater and now Purge Cell Buffers) since starting my game several hours ago. Is there any possibility at all that these changes to my ongoing save files will eventually permanently break my saves down the road?

No. In Oblivion mods generally don't leave residual data in saves. If you want to be totally safe, wait in interior cell for game respawn period (default - 3 days).

It is good to know that

It is good to know that whatever happens with my mods later, I should still be able to salvage my save files; I seem to remember that I couldn't when I eventually ran into problems with a more heavily modded Oblivion game (FCOM etc.) a year back, but who knows.

So I have Oblivion installed to C:\Oblivion, and am running from the OBSE loader .exe in admin mode. I've also tried to run the .exe under both my native Win 7 Home Premium and Win XP SP3 compatibility mode, but I seem to get as many CTDs either way. That said, do you yourself have frequent crashes when loading games under mod version 0.59? Maybe it is just something everyone experiences, but I don't see too many forum posts about this recently.

Random crashes can also

Random crashes can also happen due to the game's memory running out, the 4GB patch is supposed to help but I personally never got it working. Just remember to save often and if you can help it not reload the game. Oblivion has some bugs when it comes to reloading a save, not all data is wiped from the memory which can cause crashes. At least it definitely increases the crash rate for me. You can also try a crash preventer though none made a difference for me in Morroblivion but did help sometimes in Oblivion itself.

And my specs: Intel Core i7

And my specs: Intel Core i7 930 @2.80GHz, 6.00 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480. Thanks!

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the info Brainslasher!

Try Re_naming

Try Re_naming Oblivion\Data\DistantLOD to Something Else had to to on my Wife game she is running less files than you,on Complete installation Game only Played for 20 min then started Crashing.

Under Oblivion Options when you Start your Gam,Under Gameplay tURN OFF Autosave Except on Wait that way you can still use Autosave.

4gig Patch does Work when you Double Click the Patch it wants you to direct it to Oblivion.exe when you click it, it is Patched.

Thanks Roxon - I'll give

Thanks Roxon - I'll give those first two tips a try! Not sure whether I'll really need the 4 gig patch though - I think I do have enough RAM. So I'll see how it goes...

You might have Enough Ram But

You might have Enough Ram But if it is a 64bit Computer Oblivion will not use the Mem till you run Patch.

You can All so Edit your Oblivion.ini under ( iPreloadSizeLimit ) and up the Mem Size x 3 times the Amount that is there.

That said, do you yourself

That said, do you yourself have frequent crashes when loading games under mod version 0.59?

No, I don't. That's why I don't have a definitive advice on how to stop them.

Not sure whether I'll really need the 4 gig patch though

Yes you do. Everyone with 4+ Gb RAM should use it - otherwise your RAM won't be used by game.

Get it here.

This, of cource, works best with 64bit OS, but will help even on 32bit OS.

Thanks a lot, folks - it's

Thanks a lot, folks - it's probably still early to tell, but I've reloaded about a dozen times in the past few minutes without a single crash (before, I'd get a CTD about every other load). I think the DistantLOD folder renaming trick and the 4GB patch might see me through - here's hoping.

So as long as I don't ever travel to Cyrodiil, I assume leaving the DistantLOD folder renamed for the rest of my playthrough in Morrowind won't ever cause any problems, correct?

Should cut Crashing down to

Should cut Crashing down to 1\20 of the amount will only look horroble of in the Distant. Where Possible use your (Wait) Autosave on Internal Cells like Caius House Mages Guild Fighters Guild, Towns along the way running Country Side. Have Fun,,

You guys are awesome - thanks

You guys are awesome - thanks again!

What say the windows event

What say the windows event manager?

You use some plugin for obse?

And for the Distant Lod try use Tes4LodGen(regenerating the distant lod can sometimes fix the existing problem for me this worked). (If don't work simply delete the new folder)

I don't think I have Windows

I don't think I have Windows Event Manager, and as for OBSE plugins, I'm just using the recommended Morroblivion install ones - Elys Silent Voice and MenuQue (for Protocolled Dialogs). I did reinstall Purge Cell Buffers (Cell Change version), and though I'm not sure whether it's helping, it definitely doesn't seem to be hurting. But I'll look into TES4LodGen - thanks for the advice!

To be safe never reload in

To be safe never reload in game because it doesn't clear memory completely and can lead to different problems, always quit Oblivion and start again if you want to load a save.

Zilav - might reloading in

Zilav - might reloading in game (instead of quitting the game and then reloading) cause permanent save file or other problems down the road? Because I've already done that maybe, um, a couple hundred times...

Mike P the windows event

Mike P the windows event manager is actually called windows event viewer and is preinstalled in windows(sorry localization problem).

Ah, got it Ilde. I found

Ah, got it Ilde. I found several dozen "error" logs in the viewer over the past 3 days of playing (most in the first day or so before I ran the 4GB patch and renamed the "DistantLOD" folder), but here are a couple samples: one's the most recent, and the second is from the day before. Any ideas would be great - thank you!

Windows Event Viewer Error Logs

Faulting application name: Oblivion.exe, version: 1.2.0.416, time stamp: 0x462392c7
Faulting module name: unknown, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x00000000
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00000429
Faulting process id: 0x2044
Faulting application start time: 0x01cead14bdc69a30
Faulting application path: C:\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe
Faulting module path: unknown
Report Id: c34f4b8e-1908-11e3-85ac-485b391bffe9

Faulting application name: Oblivion.exe, version: 1.2.0.416, time stamp: 0x462392c7
Faulting module name: Oblivion.exe, version: 1.2.0.416, time stamp: 0x462392c7
Exception code: 0xc00000fd
Fault offset: 0x004a0a92
Faulting process id: 0x12b8
Faulting application start time: 0x01ceac695cac9739
Faulting application path: C:\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe

The first seem a Stack_hash

The first seem a Stack_hash crash(memory overload), while the second is a problem with oblivion.exe itself, sometimes happen.

For the first you should try Oblivion stutter remover OSR_4-1-24_RC

http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/23208//?

While for the second you can try http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/22282/? Windom earle crash prevention system.

For curiosty how much is big your save game?

P.S Bashed Patch, 0.esp shoul be always to te bottom of load order.

Ilde - I do really appreciate

Ilde - I do really appreciate the suggestions, but I think I'll avoid OSR and oCPS for now - I've read too many posts about them causing more problems than they solve (especially oCPS; something about not letting Oblivion crash when it really "needs" to, and then permanently corrupting the related save files, which I of course want to avoid at all costs). As for the save game file size, the .ess files are about 2.3MB. Also, Wrye Bash shows the "ABomb" level at only 4% - I'm already on my 200th save (obsessively saving every couple minutes!), but only have about 15 hours of play time so far. So I think I'm OK there.

Although it's going to be a pretty big hassle, I might try to avoid reloading from within the game as much as I can from now on - another poster suggested always quitting Oblivion and then loading from a restart may be "safer" in the long run. I'll also move the bashed patch to the bottom of the load order, although there aren't any merged mods in there - just some tweaks. Anything else you can think of? Thanks!

Yes reloading can cause saves

Yes reloading can cause saves corruption depending on mods and scripts.

Oblivion stutter remover

Oblivion stutter remover might be worth looking at for you though. As far as I know, and I looked into it quite deeply, you have to use Stutter Remover to fully use the 4GB patch. Without it there is a chance Oblivion still only uses 2GB. I never got it to work myself though.

Well I use both from 2010 and

Well I use both from 2010 and never had problems. For OSR only use the memory heap replacer(I use the ThreadHeap3,I used the FastMM4 but had some crash in Dibellas Watch worldspace), with an increased heap size(so the game can make better use of 4GB patch. Don't use the critical section becouse can cause instability(However I had it with Improve fairness mode, DON'T use the suppress mode, I used it and this can really corrupt your savegame and render the game unplayable).

P.S my last savegame is 10.5MB 220 Hours played

if you want watch my load order:http://www.mediafire.com/view/ot2mz3r5w8e3h8e/BOSSlog.txt

OK, I'm looking into OSR (not

OK, I'm looking into OSR (not oCPS - that one seems too problematic), but from Ilde's post, OSR also has a potential to corrupt savegames. So to be sure, I'm planning on making only the below changes to the original (version 4.1.24RC) OSR .ini file:

1) bHookCriticalSections = 0
This should turn off all Critical section stuff, right? And Idle/anyone else, is this the only part of this mod that you're aware may cause permanently corrupted save files?
2) bReplaceHeap = 1
This should allow the heap settings to take effect. I'm leaving the iHeapAlgorithm at the default selection of 6 ("ThreadHeap3").
3) MaximumFPS = 0
To eliminate the FPS max/ceiling.
4) iHeapSize = 450
What should I set this to? 450MB is the default, but I want to make sure I allow the 4GB patch to do its thing.

On a different topic, Ilde, I noticed you don't have some of the "standard" .esps bundled with Morroblivion 0.59 in your load order: Silt Striders, UCWUS, and Unique Grass. Is there a particular reason why you don't use those three? I do notice that these particular plugins aren't recognized by BOSS, and so default to the end of my load order, though I haven't associated any crashes with them (yet).

So, this game clearly takes a LOT of work to get running properly with mods - and even then, stability's a crapshoot - but Morroblivion's definitely worth it. I also really appreciate the very helpful and patient folks on this forum - a refreshing change from most of the internet. Cheers!

Well, this post here

Well, this post here recommends a heapsize of 1024. I don't know what's best but I'm in the process of figuring it out myself right now because my I'm sort of interested in using all my RAM again. The settings I'm trying right now are complely turning off every OSR mode except for bReplaceHeap, bFlushLog and iMainHookPoint. My heap settings are

iHeapAlgorithm = 5
bEnableProfiling = 0
iHeapSize = 1024
bEnableMessages = 0

I'm just testing this out right now, let's see if it works.

Thanks, Brainslasher; please

Thanks, Brainslasher; please keep us posted on how things go. And FYI, "6" seems to be the new preferred iHeapAlgorithm added by the modder in the latest OSR updates (e.g. version 4.1.24RC) - just in case you hadn't seen the latest info, but of course YMMV.

Yeah in my installation

Yeah in my installation iHeapAlgorithm = 6 works better than iHeapAlgorithm = 5

And regard to the two file that I don't have: I don't use Unique grass becouse many times I play with grass disabled.The other I completly forgot activating it.There aren't any problem with these file.

I can confirm that setting iHeapSize to 1024 bring many benefit to gameplay.However if you had any problem with the default heap you can change it (Fastmm4 ignore iHeapSize becouse its dynamic while the other are static)
P.S are you on a 64 bit operative system?

Thanks Ilde. Also, before I

Thanks Ilde. Also, before I load this to my game, I want to make sure: you mentioned the OSR "Critical Section" settings can cause corrupt save games. By setting bHookCriticalSections = 0, will I safely avoid these problems? Also, are you aware of any other potential problems with using OSR that may corrupt save games?

Yeah, I was using the old

Yeah, I was using the old version OSR_4-1, switched to RC now and changed heapmode to 6. The game didn't crash yet, I can't believe how hard it is to intentionally drive up the memory usage fast. Seems the game only crashes when I don't want it to to. I'll have to do some more testing.

I don't think only changing the heap allocation will cause any savegame issues.

To my memory the critical

To my memory the critical section is the only thing that give me trouble and can corrupt savegame, even if I recall correctly is only the suppression of critical section that give problem.

Cool, thanks - I'll try this

Cool, thanks - I'll try this out then, with my initial settings posted above but with iHeapSize changed from the default 450 to 1024. I'll let you know - maybe in a new OSR thread - if I have any problems and/or discover any better settings.