[WIP] Indoril Ordinator Armor

I see there is a problem with the look of an average Dunmer face. As soon as I'm done with exams I'll paint a proper concept of it, one that will be based on Kirkbride and original look from Morrowind, and not Skyrim. In Skyrim the Dunmer were given a much more "tough guy" look, with a big jaw and such. I'd rather have more insectoid, sleek Dunmer, as they were meant to be. I already made a quick sketch in my notebook during a lecture:

 

[External image]

 

I'll draw a side - view as well.

You can't just stick a thin helmet on a fat head and expect it to work. Like I said: the only way to make it work is to ephasize the parts of the face that are prominent when gaunt, and de-emphasize the other parts. I honestly don't see a problem with the currently version beyond that.

Is it not possible to remodel the playable Dunmer race to make it resemble the one in Morrowind, only updated to look better with Skyrim graphics? I mean, it seems everyone is trying to be true to Kirkbride's concept art and original vision with all the armor sets, etc. but the main problem is that the Dunmer race in Skyrim looks very different from how it did in Morrowind.

I'm already planning to do threads on the Dunmer physique on Tuesday Sechrima.

A) I think that's entirely uneccesary, because in TESIII, elf heads are the same size as man heads, B) to make it wearable for other races, we would still need a wide model, and C) what about all the other helmets in the game? Are we going to have to make Mer-specific models for all of those?

This "Kirkbride's vision!" thing is really starting to make people crazy.

Sechrima

Is it not possible to remodel the playable Dunmer race to make it resemble the one in Morrowind, only updated to look better with Skyrim graphics? I mean, it seems everyone is trying to be true to Kirkbride's concept art and original vision with all the armor sets, etc. but the main problem is that the Dunmer race in Skyrim looks very different from how it did in Morrowind.

Every race has to be able to wear this stuff. MK may have had some concept art but you're going to cause tons of problems by changing so many things to suit his concept art instead of just leaving things alone and accepting the fact that making everything like his image is not practical.

You guys... Everything comes down to the fact that this mask doesn't yet look as it should look, and we just need to find a way to make it so, so start thinking creatively instead of complaining and nit-picking. The mask needs to be slick, but needs to cover even widest of faces? Hell - make it also longer than a normal face.

Dragomir

You guys... Everything comes down to the fact that this mask doesn't yet look as it should look, and we just need to find a way to make it so, so start thinking creatively instead of complaining and nit-picking. The mask needs to be slick, but needs to cover even widest of faces? Hell - make it also longer than a normal face.

Make it thinner than the average helmet but not too much so. Since the head isn't rendered under full helmets, the face won't jut out and if it is done well people won't notice their faces getting smaller. Make the features more soft, and deepen the eye parts and add a shadow over them to make it look more sinister. Keep the eyebrows slanty but make them less sharp looking so it is less angry and more sinister. The bit where the eyebrows and the forehead meet should be curved instead of sharp.

I'm probably making it sound like I hate it. I don't, I think it looks nice, that was just my list of things that would make it look more like the Morrowind one if people want it more like it.

 

Looking great, can't wait to see it textured and stuff.

I still don't think this really feels Indoril.  Indoril was Nerevar's house, and the masks are his face.  The large, wide spaced, ever staring blank eyes; the serene and enigmatic facial expression - this version just doesn't give off the same vibes.  Look to Dragomir's concept art - the face could be longer and thinner, the brow more shallow and 'neutral', the face overall more elven.  When you exaggerate the cheeks and chin with such sharp angles - it becomes a caricature of Nerevar and no longer a 'likeness'.

I disagree, now it starts looking like indoril armor should.

Smitehammer

I still don't think this really feels Indoril.  Indoril was Nerevar's house, and the masks are his face.  The large, wide spaced, ever staring blank eyes; the serene and enigmatic facial expression - this version just doesn't give off the same vibes.  Look to Dragomir's concept art 

Ugh, give it a rest; Natter's version is good and if you don't like it you perfectly welcome to boot up some modeling software and make your own or use this version. 

 [External image].

I know some people don't want to admit but morrowind was a game and one slight change to the helmets won't destroy the universe it built upon. [end of rant]...But any ways Natter is not immune to constructive criticism and should follow it, but modelers should get some artistic freedom. But anyways the model is looking very good and I'm sorry if i've rustled anyones feathers [External image]. 

Double post

 

Double post

Can someone please delete this

Okay, yep quadruple post...please delete these

This is looking better! The rounder lines around the eyes makes a big difference and hollowing out the sockets definitely gave it that distinctive Ordinator eeriness. Will you be smoothing out the model or keeping the angular shapes? Also will we see ears/piercings on the mask - it was one of the most attractive features of the helmet :)   

Everyone right now seems to be focusing on the style of the mask, but I personally think the issue is technical, not stylistic. I think it may be time to give some harsh but necessary truths. The fact is, the reason the mask seems wrong is that the anatomy is wrong. The medial canthuses are too low realitve to the lateral canthuses (making it look exageratedly Asian), there's no Zygomatic arch, and the frontal process doesn't flow into the zygomatic bone, breaking the rhythym of the face. The whole side of the head is completely inarticulated; you need the masseter muscle and zygomatic arch - these are essential to a face like appearance. It's important when making a face-like mask to indicate - either by exagerating or downplaying - the anatomy of the face. If you leave out features at random, it will look strange. I would make the eyes taller and rounder, and the area around the eyes more narrow; not just because it looks better but also because how else would the guy wearing the mask see anything? I also recommend putting some kind of space between the two brows, not much but just a little so they don't appear connected. If we're trying to make this look elven, then the sides of the cheeks need to be pulled back more. Right now the cheeks are flat across the front, but they should be well pronounced even from a side view. It's hard for me to explain verbally, but if you put the mask in profile and drag the sides of the cheek towards the back of the head that's essentially what I mean. Finally, if you want the head to appear more narrow, you don't actually have to make it thinner. Just make it ever so slightly taller on top and bottom - this will achieve the same effect. I'm only doing this because I want the armor to be the best it possibly can be and I think that may require a different kind of guidance than Natterforme's been getting. The issues aren't stylistic - you're taking it in a fine direction. Finally, if I seem too harsh I appologize, I was only trying to give advice as an artist.

Zygomatic arch - or the cheekbone that connects to eat area to the rest of us :P

Natter we can work on this together, any areas people arent happy with or some tech stuff u cant manage yet, let me know and I can do those parts.
We also have to bulk this out with clothing/robe, stuff that can be added/removed for variation, can u make a start on simple planes that hang down ?

Natterforme

I know that the original morrowind version had a mask with ears but that was probably because the game had no ear meshes and the original mask had to imply them.

If I remember correctly, full helmets completely replaced the character's head mesh, so in order for the ears to appear, they has to be part of the helmet. We are not so limited nowadays.

The Ordinator helmet is supposed to be a depiction of Saint Nerevar's own image; I'm fairly certain the ears were deliberate.

 

Morrowind would have had a ton of helmets with weird Dunmer anatomy carved into them if what you're suggesting was true. 

I like the way this is going! only thing I will miss is all the earrings that won't be there on account of no ears lol, but that i can definitely live with. Looks good I like the sharp angular look

The concept art had the ears like Natter's got it, with the ears being the Dunmer's own ears.  All the better to hear you and what not.

Of course the armor will look best on Dunmer, as well it should.

It would be prohibitively expensive to outfit every rank and file soldier, even ordinators, with a single piece – let alone a whole set – of rare and valuable daedric armor. Plus, the privilege of wearing Indoril armor is reserved solely for ordinators as their badge of office. And from a gameplay perspective, if every random ordinator you ran into purging infidels at daedric ruins wore daedric armor, it would significantly diminish its value to the player.

The new one is much better, in my opinion. It really just needs the same flavours and general look of the original, not an identical design.

people be talking about deadric indoril armour! that would the the most bad a$$ thing ever!, might even compete with the new ebony set. Don't have to give it to everyone, just one set in the game! find nerevars tomb/memorial site or something and have a big stone coffin deem you worthy all Excalibur style then open up and give you the armour

You should make it so you have to defeat a ghost of Nerevar to earn the armour. He should be a challenge though.

Jobe wan kenobi

You should make it so you have to defeat a ghost of Nerevar to earn the armour. He should be a challenge though.

Um... but aren't You the ghost of Nerevar in Morrowind? I mean, that was kind of the point of being Nerevarine, wasn't it? :D

He probably wouldn't have a ghost - you are his reincarnation.  And it's just a helmet inspired by Nerevar, not an entire set of Daedric armor.  Kurasaki has already started modeling it, the one with four 'eyes'.

It's going to be put in the game already, so it may make sense to have it in the same place as Moon-and-Star.

Nerevar's body is in Necrom. You would need to put it either in the Cavern of the Incarnate, the Red Mountain, or a very holy location to the Tribunal Temple, such as Vivec's or Almalexia's palaces.

Nerevar's body is on the mainland, which is why his tomb never made an appearance in-game. Placing something like this in the Cave of the Incarnate would also distract the player away from the importance of Moon & Star in the mainquest. A relic of Nerevar could be easily placed in one of the Tribunal temples like how the mask of Vivec can be found in Gnisis. It would be an appropriate way to put the artifact on display while giving it an air of veneration. 

nvm

Vivec those are polygons. They only show because the model isn't in smooth mode or will have more polys later for the texture.

Smerk10

Vivec those are polygons. They only show because the model isn't in smooth mode or will have more polys later for the texture.

Alright. I was thinking that but I don't know much about modelling so I assumed if it wasn't in smooth mode the entire thing would be like that. Apologies.

The hand in the pauldron (?) could be a nice touch :)

That helmet is looking killer Natterforme! I like the fact that It looks fearsome yet relaxed, and the chin looks great. I think that later on the armor should have markings or objects on it that reflect the Dunmer culture. That would be cool.

Looks really good!

I'm not sure if I'd necessarily draw inspiration from elements for the Indoril armor, simply because the set is supposed to be deeply engrained in Dunmer religion and a great House. It is meant to be representative of the Tribunal and their authority - things that aren't inextricably linked to Vivec city itself or the fact that it is a floating citadel. Furthermore the turtle shape, while interesting, looks very warped the side view as it gives a hunched appearance to the wearer - hardly something that is graceful or intimidating as the Ordinators are meant to be. There is lastly very little detail differentiating the plate from Imperial armor concepts; it looks too western. I think it's a great idea that you'd veer away from the chitin layer of the original set, but the armor should respect the nature of the temple before anything else.  

I'm not going to to add my own thoughts on the mask to the many already milling about on this topic and any more will just confuse the matter, though I would say that the cloth segments of this armor are some of the most important, seeing as the armor plating in fact only covers the chest, spine, shoulders, gauntlets and face. Perhaps the greaves are worn underneath the garment? Either way, I would hope that not too many of the original cloth sections are being replaced, they do give it a much more interesting silhouette than that of basic armor.

And I'm fairly sure the original Ordinators are wearing sandals, not boots of any solid material, to keep in with that oriental vibe :)

stijmunkeypeople be talking about deadric indoril armour! that would the the most bad a$$ thing ever!, might even compete with the new ebony set. Don't have to give it to everyone, just one set in the game! find nerevars tomb/memorial site or something and have a big stone coffin deem you worthy all Excalibur style then open up and give you the armour

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/50635/?

This is a mod for Skyrim that adds Daedric Indoril armor 

basically a retexture and not that impressive if i might say. Never liked the indoril armor (the variant that is on nexus). Not sure why, but it feels that it misses the refinement and the prestige such an armor might impose. 

This is why i am looking forward to Natterforme's interpretation.

I prefer this new one to the original, all honestly.