Censorship in Skywind aka Molag's Balls

Screw it, I'll join in the fray.

I have no problem with the erect penis on the statue. If the original artist wants to put it on the statue, more power to them.

Just to note, if the penis makes it ingame, it will be what people will focus on when they see the statue. Regardless of maturity level, if someone sees a massive erect phallus it will overpower any other details.

I vote for the add-on, for the reasons I stated in the Molag Bal thread. I did think his statue could use a bit more indication of rape, and there's no better way to do that, than get inspired by the work of ancient cultures. And Skywind is not commercial, so we're not that limited by our audience.

Still, it will likely be best to make the spicy content optional. Talking not only about Molag Bal's dingus, but about all kinds of different stuff.

Сorrect me if i am don't know it, but is Molag Bal animal at all? I think daedra cannot reproduce, so they logically as "anatomically impaired as a Ken doll".

 

Alysander - no. Molag Bal is the King of Rape and Daedra had plenty of sexual themes to them.

I vote no, for the reason stated by plasmax.  That is all anyone will see, period.  Most of my friends are not artists, any time I've shown them any figure studies I've done the first thing they undoubtedly think/say is "haha that person is naked."  Also, I believe that the goal of this mod is to recreate morrowind as it was intended, and I do not believe Bethesda would have wanted that.

More interested in tribal-style (or associated more with poverty than with erotics) common nudity included in game (dreamers, berserkers, slaves, show-girls in Suran club) than statues and cults in ancient/classic style. I think Morrowind population is some more puritan religious society (like berbers IRL and other desert societies).

So i vote against erotic statues (in vanilla), and i vote for common/contextual nudity.

[External image]

GreatMightyAlso, I believe that the goal of this mod is to recreate morrowind as it was intended, and I do not believe Bethesda would have wanted that.

Thing is, that was intended by Kirkbride, the game just got stripped of it so that it could get PEGI 12. Skyrim is PEGI 18 and the sexual content that's been in the lore anyway, could be portrayed in the game. And yeah, it's in the in-game books too. Read 36 Lessons of Vivec and it's depiction of Molag Bal and his spikong will seem underwhelming in comparison to that.

The "Hehe, penis" issue is the only semi-legitimate contrargument I heard so far though :P What do you think about an optional +18 patch though?

ATTENTION! As the issue isn't is a penis alone ok, but rather should adult content be included as a vanilla or optional file, there will be a vote. If you have a vote please post either optional or vanilla. Don't say no, just say optional. In a week we can tally up votes and it can be done with. Please do not include all of your reasons with your vote, or it may not be tallied. Keep your reasons separate. Just vote the word optional, or vanilla.

Dragomir

The "Hehe, penis" issue is the only semi-legitimate contrargument I heard so far though :P What do you think about an optional +18 patch though?

I'm all for this. This way we could include other 18+ things as well, including maybe nude berserkers and all that. When it comes to Molag Bal, an erect penis really shows that he is the God of Rape, but on the other hand it will distract from pretty much everything else regarding the statue.

 

ya i wouldnt ad that i am oke the saying stuf but showing it is diferent and would make it super wierd

Daedra are supposed to be super wierd.

My vote is strongly no. We could argue violence vs nudity and ESRB ratings all day, but if Skyrim doesn't have it, this shouldn't either. If you guys want to put extra effort into an optional mod that adds these kinds of things, go for it, just don't push it on everyone else just for the sake of maturity and being "lore-friendly". It's unnecessary and there really shouldn't be an argument about it. I respect the artists decision, but just make it optional and don't forget the REAL reasons why this game will be great.  

i vote for an optional add on  with mature content like dragomir said

Do you know why elders scrolls are cool? Its because it offers freedom to choose and few restrictions so we should follow this principle and let everyone choose what they want without restrictions. You want nudity fine, enable it; you dont want it, fine too just dont enable the add on.

"if Skyrim doesn't have it, this shouldn't either" - I don't really understand the reasoning behind that :P And adult content is not only added for "the sake of maturity and lore-friendliness". Many +18 games include adult content, sometimes even very explicit, and they use it greatly to their advantage. Amnesia, Silent Hill, Witcher, Witcher 2 and many, many more. It depthens the world, characters, makes it more like reality rather than some playground stripped of any spiky or potentially dangerous things. Well, not even that, most of them are left in for fun, while others taken away, and that makes the dissonnance even more annoying.

Personally - I hate how prude TES games got since Morrowind. Sex is an essential part in our reality, and should be, to some point, acknowledged in fantasy worlds, especially as deep and detailed as the one we want to portray here.

I could see this issue garnering some pretty bad PR. And if it gets bad enough, the lawyers and such at Bethesda may try to once again shut the project down. Especially if its just part of the main version and unavoidable by the players. That's just an outcome I thought should be kept in mind.

Lol, what law would we be breaking? I don't see Schlongs of Skyrim being taken off the Nexus somehow. But as I said, all this could be made optional.

Just do what Better Bodies did.  They had a nude version, an underwear version, and a 'peanut gallery' version for those who will go out of their way to look at boobies but feel insecure about penises.

Little off-top thought. This talk about world without genitals and outhouses... Can anyone name some fantasy, or fantastic game/film/literature world (enough detailed for it) without some sort of flowering plants?

I vote optional, mostly because I have kids and I would like to be able to just disable those kinds of things if I feel the need to play while they are home.

I've noticed nobody has mentioned if we should also make violence as an optional add on. Cutting heads off seems like very adult theme. I say if we have a R18 addon that violence is also included in this.

I vote optional, mostly because I have kids and I would like to be able to just disable those kinds of things if I feel the need to play while they are home.

So surely killing people would be more offensive and detrimental to a kids psyche, than genitals. We better make sure that we also censor violence.

I'll start working out the mechanics of removing any violence. Rather than players getting hit, I could put a big box around the players and put the words "CENSORED".

Of course to not have this feature they just need to use the "R18" addon. I'm being dead serious.

"R18". You can have sex, you can have babies, you can get married, you can play an avatar in a computer game that literally kills thousands of people, but you can't see a penius on a statue.

Does this not seem like a very arbitrary number that a bullshit governing body would put in place?

But if artist so want to draw genitals of Molag Bal to make them rape king-daemon anyway - it can draw them completely non-human. Like tentacles or show your imagination.

mrcling

I vote optional, mostly because I have kids and I would like to be able to just disable those kinds of things if I feel the need to play while they are home.

 

To be honest you shouldn't really be playing Skyrim in front of your kids if they're young if you're bothered about them seeing those kind of things. Its a pretty violent game... :)

I'm not telling him how to raise his children. I'm just stating that its not a great idea, its none of my business how he raises them. Just thought it was a bit odd that's all.

Back to the topic, I think that it should be done if people think it will enhance the game by being more according to lore and really giving the feel of Molag Bal being a evil daedra. But it should definitely be made as an optional add on.

I redesigned the statue to be more appropriate, I hope you guys like it.

[External image]

oh sh*t. Its perfect... USE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! add it to the art book and the website! Make it a new logo! Sacrifice virgin gamers on this thread to it! Buy it interchangeable wardrobes! Make this an Easter egg as graffiti in an unmarked daedric shrine or ald'ruhn! Replace Dagoth Ur with this! Take it to dinner and a movie! Replace the ministry of truth with this! Let it rain from the skies! Carve it into the crust of the earth! I-it- This pony is my jam!!!!!!!!  

...I digress...

Ahh I'm not sure Dragomir, that pink undergarment she's wearing is pretty lewd. 

Oh my glob. Then you need this guy in team http://curtsibling.deviantart.com/gallery/

Yours TrulySacrifice virgin gamers on this thread to it!

Are you suggesting that there are other gamers? I wouldn't suppose anyone our community is so sinful to have sex. Only virgin gamers here, sir.

Jobe wan kenobiAhh I'm not sure Dragomir, that pink undergarment she's wearing is pretty lewd.

Yeah, the design is far from finished yet. I'll better make it a chastity belt, but a nice and plastic one, with white fur, how does that sound? You think if I added a birthday hat it would be okay, or would the cone shape of it look too phallic?

Technically I was referring to those of us who are against the idea. I'm about as virgin as it gets.

Dragomir

Yeah, the design is far from finished yet. I'll better make it a chastity belt, but a nice and plastic one, with white fur, how does that sound? You think if I added a birthday hat it would be okay, or would the cone shape of it look too phallic?

Yes that sounds great, can you stick a cute little puppy in there too? And yes the cone is a no go, don't want to upset anyone now do we?

[External image]

 

An update. Chastity belt and also a bra to rule out the potential of demon nipples. I didn't go with a puppy though, I felt dove is what this scene needs the most.

So its agreed that we are voting on "Violence+Nudity" R18 addon?

My problem is that we have let conditioning except that this is ok

and that this is not

I'll find it very hypocritical if people want to separate them.

Dragomir

[External image]

 

An update. Chastity belt and also a bra to rule out the potential of demon nipples. I didn't go with a puppy though, I felt dove is what this scene needs the most.

Ahh a dove to symbolise peace and to make sure we have no bad intentions, I like it.

Didn't the winged twilights in Morrowind have their titties showing? I for one am for having sexual themes as long as they're not taken too far, I agree with Dragomir that it adds depth to the game. Though I'd say an addon is the best way to go, even if it's just to appease the people that have concerns about it.

 

And I feel that the candles in the picture encourage a younger audience to start fires, so they should probably be removed too.

Molag bal's ball are/should not be a deciding factor for people who are thinking about installing the product. I would also like to believe that people aren't going to see the balls/dick and go UNINSTALLING RIGHT AWAY HURRRRRRR.

Yixist

Didn't the winged twilights in Morrowind have their titties showing? I for one am for having sexual themes as long as they're not taken too far, I agree with Dragomir that it adds depth to the game. Though I'd say an addon is the best way to go, even if it's just to appease the people that have concerns about it.

They did, but in the same way that argonians and khajiit looked when they were nude

EDIT:

I have decided that I no longer have any desire to see nudity in game. This is simply because when you add nudity into anything 1 in 1000 people, if not more, will have their focus drawn towards that rather than the detail of everything else... That's just how most people react to seeing nudity in games.[External image]

Whatever this decision comes out to be, I beg not to make another add-on! Every topic that relates to improving the game of Morrowind by adding something that wasn't in the original game, the solution is to make it an add-on. I dont want to have to go through 150 different add-ons just to play the game in a style based on what I want to see!

This idea of making everything an add-on is very aggravating to me. I understand we are able to do things Bethesda wouldn't do but you wouldn't expect Bethesda to make add-ons for certain groups of people. Some of the ideas need to be yes'd or no'd based on whether or not it will actually play a big impact on people. Other things like voice acting should have an option in game to turn it off, along with map markers and etc. The possibility for add-ons is a great thing that we are able to take advantage of, but lets not abuse it...

Ok I'm pretty much done with this sorta conversation. But at this point I'm just going to end with this.

@Happychappy the difference between nudity and valiance is quite different in this case because every single person playing skyrim is expecting to see valiance of some sort in the game because thats what comes with the orignal game. full nudity hasn't been in any elders scrolls game up until now which makes nudirty something people don't expect from a ES game especially sex orgins which are for the most part haven't been in most games.

Second reason. I think theres enough people on this thread stating that they would prefer it as a plugin or just don't want it in the game for one reason or another. Not listening to this many people (which could equal to allot of the fans who plan to play the game who are not on this website.)  would jeopardizes our perpose for this mod. We wish to make it a fun game for as many people as we can and adding nudirty like this could ruin the game for many of them or would make us a laughing stock [External image].

Thirdly. You have to take into consideration the artists. Some of the artists don't want to work on this sorta stuff (including me). which begs the question Who would work on this sorta stuff when where so far away from release, and would it be worth the resources. I think happychappy has clarified that many of my ideas aren't worth implementing and at this point says that adding stuff like this is worth it. Doesn't really make much sense to me when the thing I was talking about could have been added Farley easily. This not so much.

fourthly. I think I remember eloth stating that he would not allow penises on animals (well atleast on the cliff racer) which could mean that eloth is against it who is one of the leaders of this mod. I could be wrong since he hasn't really talked on the subject but I do think we have had a conversation about this sorta stuff before and he was against it.

Anyway at this point I digress and will let you guys say what you want. But I'm going to keep to that promise that if this stuff is implemented in the orignial game then I will leave.

Incredible, so much noise for a 3d penis. Our society is very strange.

Anyway, to me it doesn't make any difference, in the end. If the penis will not end in the game, i'm not going to die, if the penis will end in the game i'm not going to die. My opinion is that it is quite coherent with our ancient culture and with the representation of the character, and i still think that a penis is the least worse thing that could possibly happen, but not in the videogame, more in general. And about the "larger audience" problem i think: the videogame is alread limited to 18, so lots of minors should not play this videogame anyway.

Smerk: mh, in reality, for what i know the first two elder scrolls contain lots of nudity, even the erotic one.

Let us know when ya'll clam yo tits.There's work to be done.
If we cant decide now, lets move on and come back to it later.

My 2 cents: no 18+ patch. No obvious spikey penis unless the statue is very obscured. Artisitcally yes, the naked form is beautiful, and important, but taking the stand point of an actual studio trying to make a game that "sells" to as wide an audience as possible, it has to be reigned in.

So anyway, moving on.... Lets come back to this and get shit done.

Ravanna

So anyway, moving on.... Lets come back to this and get shit done.

I agree

I agree with msspeed that we shouldn't have add-ons for everything. I mean who is actually going to make these? There always seems to be a magical person to do this or that. It seems to me that there is a story and scenes to be told and that we should portray that vision as outlined in the Elder Scrolls.

I think we forget what the Daedric princes represent. So we won't have penises or breasts, but I do want scenes that represent the culture. Molag Bal is King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls. Lust, torture, death...but of course no nudity because that would be "wrong".

 

The reason violence around my kid doesn't bother me is because I was in the military. It's a topic she has dealt with and seen her entire life. A base that has already been covered, so to speak. That's just me, of course, and I'll continue my support of the project even if Red Mountain is replaced with a giant phallus.

This is a beautifully diverse planet we live on. People are allowed to have their own opinions. There's no objective "rightness" or "wrongness" to nudity. It comes down to personal taste.

Some people are comfortable with the inclusion of mature content, ranging from nudity to sexual violence. This is okay.

Some people are not comfortable with the inclusion of mature content, ranging from nudity to sexual violence. This is also okay.

So stop slamming other people who don't hold your personal views (this is not directed at anyone in particular).

In terms of a practical solution? That depends on the consensus -- yes/no adult content, yes/no optional add on. But guys, even if no official add on is made, it doesn't mean your game can't be modded to your taste or that no other modder on the planet will ever release an add on. However, in terms of Skywind's official stance on the subject, one party may not be satisfied.

I'm with Ravanna: if no consensus can be reached or this devolves to a flame war, shelf it and wait for everyone to cool down. Re-open the discussion later.

happychappyI've noticed nobody has mentioned if we should also make violence as an optional add on. Cutting heads off seems like very adult theme. I say if we have a R18 addon that violence is also included in this.

Yeah thats the thing we Germans dont get when looking over the great lake. For us its completely the other way around - no one censores nudity here, but we are famous for cutting violence from games for the german market (unfortunate for adults tho, but thats why austria exists :p).
But I prefer the censorship this way around as I like living in peace and I like naked woman, win-win situation for me!

I dont need nudity in my games tho, but if it fits the theme and look, sure give Molag his balls.

To be honest, I really don't know why it's such a big deal. A statue is hardly offensive, if you know what I mean - sure it's about rape and domination but it's a symbol, it's not like you're going to see his followers fucking in front of the statue.

18+. I like it. But about penis, not big plz.