The main idea is creating many paths to get to the Dagoth.
-First solution is creeping and avoiding enemies and using high security skills. Foes go on paths and there should be way to pass by them. (mainly for thieves)
-Second solution is mindless executing of everyone. (for warriors, mages)
-Third one is using arcade skills (jumping, avoiding danger etc.) Extra hidden path for players which pretty suck at combat and other things. (mainly for noobs)
I'm aware that it's total redesign of Dagoth Ur mansion. But I didn't feel that was some kind of facility or factory. Honestly original one wasn't epic at all. It was lame. We should fix it. Most of that could be done from original parts with some exceptions (dwemer cathedral style interior, crushers, rails, gates, maybe some machines but it is not necessary) but even then shapes are primitive and easy enough to create.
Outer facility (Storage\Hangar like)
High ceilings, quite a lot of space etc. Red path is path for noobs (on suspended platform)
For opening first door you need high security skill or key from foe.
Inner facility (Factory/Assembly line)
For opening second, third, fourth door you need high security skill or key from foe. For noobs you have paths on the right and on the left. For last door you have to activate platform with sunder. After that you have to wait 30s (opening door system) meanwhile 6 enemies will appear with magic attack (You have to pick 100% reflection for 30s potion to survive). After that u can go further.
Lower facility (Steel mill)
For noobs you have service corridor (we can add there some leaky pipes with steam/fire, falling pipes etc.)
For opening first door (cathedral), you need high security skill or key from foe. Service rooms will be quite traditional.
Facility cavern (mine)
It would be cool to add throne but it is not necessary.
Akulakhan's chamber (One big construction area)
It would be cool add to chamber a bit bigger than original and much higher with skylight on the top with multiplatforms and so on. After defeating Dagoth I will add animation with Akula.... falling apart, maybe destruction of all construction side but only if we can afford for it. I'm waiting for some better design here.
Of course this is only sketch and I'm counting on imagination of level designers. But this is general idea. I will add concepts of outer facility (hangars), inner facility (cathedral form pipes and traps), lower facility (steel mill) and maybe but I don't know if it is necessary I will add concepts for Aku.. chamber (maybe someone else)
Optional. We can create some connections with Odrosal, Endisal, Tureymilal and Vemynal with Dagoth Ur. Maybe some tunnels with railways.
Very optional (probably future development if any)
Big dwemer underground world (sth like in Skryim but a bit smaller and more hellish) connecting Odrosal, Endisal, Tureymilal and Vemynal with Dagoth Ur (I think it could be not problem with assets but with manpower to create it)
BTW. I know it sounds like a lot of work but this is most important place in the game and it should be done well (I mean epic as hell) It means it need a lot beta testing too.
I wait for feedback as always.
we can only really use the current interior models aside from special large rooms, such as main chamber, which btw needs to be WAAYYY bigger.
designing new interior paths is a big project in itself
Personally I feel like the lighting should come purely from underneath, emanating from the lava as opposed to a skylight. I feel like a skylight would destroy the sense of being inescapable and hell-like. I'm totally for expansion though.
The opening at the top of Akulakhan's chamber could be the opening to the volcano...
...If that wasn't what you already intended. :)
@Ravanna ehh, I understand. But maybe to make interiors a bit richer I'll add in_dwrv_hall_ceiling and in_dwrv_hall_floor to give level designer more freedom with size of interiors. Btw. We need rails anyway (like in furn_rail) then we can add bigger version of rail and rails (nothing more to modeling only make it bigger and cut off wooden scaffolding). For crusher we can simply combined ex_dwr_block00 and ex_dwr_pipefitting00. Rest of deadly traps will be combined of pipes/steam/fire. And about Aku chamber I agree but I don't how much Skyrim can handle (number of assets in one place)
@Ociee @thegentlemancaller I was thinking about little beam light from the top. Sth like that. To get feeling how big the chamber is.
I will add gantry. It has a lot of potential in designing level, so I hope I will find volunteer to model it. I didn't add texture because I didn't know what they look like in rest of assets. I think it's easy enough to model. Textures will be the same like the rest of dwemer's things
1. Main part, u can establish one by one next to each other.
2.a left ending
2.b right ending
3.chain
4. hook
A. with hanging platform
B. with hanging pipe
C. stand alone only with main part
For conveyor-belt I will add simple cylinder but multiplied. It's not even needed to add some rotation only moved texture and add some sound.
This thing on the top is hot iron bar. It could have the same texture as lava. It's seamless then we can add some offset animation (offset like in Photoshop).
If we stick to the original assets we can make steel mill like above. (I will add more depicted concept in the future)
For inner facility we can do sth similar.
Alternative way packed into one big machine, I think it's quite possible to create it from default assets.(Later I will add some concept).
And for big locked gate it could be door_dwr_main00
This would probably be a lot of work, but wow. This is a good idea, i think
Meh. If you do not have what you like, you like what u have.
Outer facility
Just big halls with gantry stuff. should Lowest level quite bright compare to inner and lower facility. If anyone can introduce here pointed beam lights it would be cool. To save time I propose to cut some assets like
and as I mentioned
separate for ceiling and for floor
Inner facility
A lot of dust, medium visibility, sparkles (we have to do for tribunal anyway). A lot of machines, a lot of movement, suspended conveyor-belt etc.
Lower facility. Heat, almost no ordinary light, quite dark. There could be some bigger chamber with crossing machines etc.
Of course except main chambers could be some smaller too. Most importing thing here is different light and mood for each facility. Lighter places and darker is good for hiding reason too.
If u have some more ideas just post it here, guys :)
Finished Balmora Mages Guild Idle Banter!
overki11 wrote:
Wrong thread :|
I'd definately feel that it should be a Dwemer facility taken over by a zealous and deformed cult. So if the aforementioned machinery is in place, it'd have to be combined with very strange lighting/fog effect, reddish almost, and many symbols relating to the Sixth House. I would imagine that the Dagoth creatures do not value clean, fresh air much at all, and as such haven't maintained the ventilation to any high standard at all. Thoughts?
Most importantly, of course, should be the fact that this should be one of the hardest area's in the game, right? Therefore, I don't think there should be an option for noobs. Wouldn't you agree?
BTW I really like the plan you have lukkar, I think this is in the right hands :D
It will be quite challenging to devise a good sneaky-route, and to include interesting puzzles perhaps.
@Satchboogie I like your Idea. Facility taken over by Dagoth and his dudes. A bit decaying but functioning place with weirdo things and mess.
And about light effects I wanted to do sth like that after approaching deeper and deeper levels there is less light and air is more dense. What I mean. Light effects make that u feel more dangerously level by level.
Outer Facility (storage) – quite bright, quite good visibility, clean air. Quite often u see lamps (yellow light)
Inner facility (factory) – fog, fumes, medium visibility Some lamps there and here (brown/ orange light)
Lower facility (steel mill) – fog, fumes, poor visibility, very dark. No lamps. Good place to design light. (red light)
Like in original Diablo step by step you are reaching hell.
I agree it shouldn't be exactly path for noobs maybe some hidden alternative way where u have to maintain good speed and acrobatic skills, simply arcade game (maybe some puzzles on the way?) Maybe phrase „for noob” is not good here.
Btw. We will not have new interiors here therefore plans should be redesigned anyway. I will some sketches later.
Aku propositions
Poses:
1. Standing (vanilla)
2. Y-pose
3. In pieces
4. Sitting on the throne.
Body
a. Quite armored
b. Only torso
c. Full torso
c.1 Tunnel behind neck to the heart chamber.
Head types
A. B. C. D.
For me best solution is 2 or 3 with c.1 Of course inside aku will be additional interior (animations of aku problems). Btw. we need in_bonecave.... anyway, we can use it here. If someone want to create more depicted proposition I'm not oposed :) Now I will be working on aku chamber.
Heart of Lorkhan will be placed as in the original concept - in AK's third eyehole.
I'd love to be part of making this once we have all the assets!
Akulakhan's Chamber
Now it is MASSIVE!
One big lava lake underneath with waves like on the ocean. Above that floating rocks like in one of my favorite UT99 map. "Lavafalls", magma eruptions, volcanic bombs and etc.
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Bridge is going up and down, that after each elevation u see new wave of enemies. But not whole path but u always see Akulakhan.
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Rocky bridge is connected with simple "dwemer bridge" which one is connected with construction platform. Construction yard will be consist of many railways, paths, connections, cranes, utility rooms etc.
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When u destroy heart, then will be started destruction sequence (metal sounds and so on, floating rocks will fall dawn). When u leave platform, then will start destroy event of this platfrom. When u leave bridge then will start destroy event of bridge. When u reach entrance then will start destroy event of whole chamber (just some rising level of magma and some falling stalactite)
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And most important NO LEVITATION. Maybe just explain it that heart of lorkhan produce some magic field which doesn't allow to levitate.
I think it is possible to do because it doesn't need too much new assets. And most primitive triggers could be just movement down)
A suggestion on that note; in the Thieve's Guild questline, in the temple to nocturnal you must avoid the light or die. Use similar scripting in the path is left, with a note mentioning Dagoth's power, or have a voiceover from Dagoth saying "I hoped to keep this fair, old friend. No levitation today."
@Yours Truly
Good idea.
Btw. Anyone played legend of grimrock? (Btw. it's on humblebundle) They have quite cool puzzles. It be would shame to not use some traps and puzzles combined. Maybe some level with path which u can pass enemies but u have use your brain to solve sth. The true vanguard in modern gaming.
Legend of Grimrock is one of my favorite games! Definitely implement that.
Great ideas ppl!
And throw in some puzzles if you have the assets to do it! Maybe remote levers to open the 'big gate' kind of puzzles. Do that to get there to open the door, if you catch my drift ^^
I'm catching the drift and it's causing me to go overboard.
How about a trap room, a chamber where the doors behind you close and a wave of low level ash creature storm the room? They can come from miniscule side rooms, one of which will have a lever to open the gates again (similar to Legend of Grimrock).
Dagoth Ur Citadel being a dungeon with varied rooms and challenges; yes. Should it be just a Dwemer ruin however? Probably not. Remember that this was the HQ of Kagnerac and the Vvardenfell Dwemer. To say it is just a forge would be doing the base disservice, as it was the tallest bastion of the Dwemer race and inside the heart of Tamriel's harshest and most active volcano. It has also been turned by Dagoth Ur over the course of centuries into the heart of his Sixth House. In my opinion that should take precedence over making it look Dwemer - Dagoth Ur Citadel should be a place that reflects Dagoth's plan for Morrowind and ultimately Tamriel. It should be the pinnacle, and the throne, of the divine race he wishes the Dunmer to become.
TL;DR: Dagoth Ur citadel should be a Sixth House fortress rather than a Dwemer just a forge. It should be more Sixth House oriented than Dwemer.
It could have extra interiors next to main "pass" (more ordinary areas and so on) I always had feeling that it should be just adapted dwemer city than sth true Sixth House especially if it all their bases are just adapted ruins with big mess inside. They were not so creative except some furniture and building Akulakhan. I always felt taht this is sth temporary to archive main goal. Maybe they should rid off what bother them and what they want to reuse. Leave what wasn't so annoying. It would be cool to see some extra structures above dwemer ones. Btw. for so big project gigantic forge simply fits. They just use volcanic energy in useful way.
It should be the pinnacle, and the throne, of the divine race he wishes the Dunmer to become.
Maybe only some throne room and I think this is enough.
I wasn't speaking of a literal throne as I feel the Akulakhan chamber fits the bill quite well - but that the citadel itself is the capital of the Sixth House, not too dissimilar to what Ald'ruhn, Balmora & Sadrith Mora are to the other Houses. For Dagoth Ur Citadel to be just a 'big' dungeon would be a little unimaginative. There should definitively be big assets of the Dwemer in the base, especially in the architecture. The citadel is built inside a volcano after all - it should be appropriately imposing and show the extent of the Dwemer's proficiency as builders - however I'm sure that Dagoth Ur isn't constructing Akulakhan with just a forge considering the immense amount of magical power he and his minions wield.
Make his "throne" the room just before the Akulakhan chamber, one where maybe mural showing Dagoth's plans could line the walls, and braziers could be used for lighting. Have Dagoth sitting when you enter the room (think Haskill as you enter the SI). He can just be patiently waiting watching newton balls on his desk (or Dagoth balls for all that matters). It would also be interesting to have a library completely in dwemer. It would be time consuming, and no where near priority, but it would make sense that Dagoth would take advantage of the knowledge available.
In Darknut's GDR mod, he had a great set up. The antechamber before the cavern of Akulakhan served as Dagoth's Ur operational throne room. He had a large, 3-D map of Vvardenfell and it was clear this was where he had devised his strategy and enforced his blight upon the land.
I definitely think he should have a throne room - with a literal throne - before the room containing Akulakhan. This would be where he'd confront the player and one could have all the dialogue choices to learn more about Dagoth Ur and his plans.
So I agree with YoursTruly, the room should have not only the literal throne, but also show Dagoth Ur's extensive plans in the forms of maps, schematics, etc. It would also be interesting to see alchemical apparatus and other magical trinkets, indicating the extensive work and magical nature of the blight. Obviously Dagoth Ur doesn't brew the blight with alchemical ingredients, that's not the point - there just needs to be some sort of physical representation of his work. Any other ideas could easily suffice, some maybe better so.
I definitely think, at the end of the day, Dagoth Ur (the facility) is a dwemer ruin through and through. That being said, it has been used for centuries as the seat of Dagoth Ur (the figure) and his minions, and should be heavily covered in Sixth House clutter and architecture. Eons of use by the Sixth House should make a big difference.. But not only Citadel Dagoth but ALL OF THE DWEMER RUINS IN THE GHOSTGATE SHOULD BE HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY HOUSE DAGOTH / SIXTH HOUSE ARCHITECTURE. :) Not just Dagoth Ur, but Vemynal, Odrosal, Endusal, Tureynulal, etc. as well.
It'd be neat if each Dagoth citadel served a purpose in Dwemer civilization. One a library, one a tonal laboratory, another a dwemer military instillation, etc. They should have remarkably different motifs and design elements. These are the big, bad dungeons, after all. The most critical and imposing in the entire game. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the names (for example, Vemynal, Odrosal, and Tureynulal) aren't even their ancient dwemeri names - these are what they were christened by Dagoth Ur and his dunmer minions (for example, Dagoth Vemyn leads Citidal Vemynal, Dagoth Odros in Citidal Odrosal, etc.). It would be interesting if one or more location had a sort of back story, perhaps told via scattered notes or journals, which may so reveal their original dwemeri names.
As for the designs themselves, we already know Dagoth Ur is a heavily geothermic-centric location with lots of lava. From what I've seen, it also appears the devs are going with a mining motif there. It would be great if more Sixth House assets were created for those citadels within Ghostgate. These would include ash statues, sixth house shrines, of course, but perhaps also have some sort of organic growth-type elements? I don't know what it'd be like, but nothing as strong and organic such as the zerg (Starcraft), but something to really inspire a magical horror-type feeling. Maybe there are veins and various organic elements growing over some sections of the walls? Perhaps they are organic elements growing out of the Heart of Lorkhan (I know, the heart is not a literal heart per se)?
I don't know, just something to spark the imagination of others.
EDIT: Edited a comma usage.
Hey guys, I'm mostly doing voice-over stuff for the project (Ash Creatures at this point), not art assets or anything... so you would know better than I if an idea would work here or not. That said, I thought of something that wouldn't need more than one or two extra assets and would hopefully have a noticeable impact.
*MAIN QUEST SPOILERS FOLLOW* for those who haven't played Morrowind...
Dagoth Ur mentions that he originally wanted you to serve by his side as a (potential) equal, but cast the idea aside and decided that you are too much of a threat. I was thinking that, in Dagoth Ur's throne room (which I agree should be a thing) there could be two pedestals- one would be where Dagoth Ur would presumably put his mask when he isn't wearing it (which at this point, due to his madness, is never) so it remains unused (maybe the pedestal has his name in Daedric on it?).
The other pedestal has another mask on it- it is similar to Dagoth Ur's in style but clearly made for a Dark Elf in mind... and it should resemble mural depictions of Lord Indoril Nerevar.
The Nerevar mask is probably cracked or shattered (since Dagoth Ur basically gave up on you) but the presence of the mask would show that not only does Dagoth Ur have plans for Vvardenfell... he originally had plans for you, too.
(I know that the player, of course, could choose any race... but Dagoth Ur may have had plenty of time to plan things out, and perhaps he assumed that Nerevar would return in a form similar to the one he once had...)
Just something to consider! I'm really loving the ideas here so far, by the way.
Darknut here:
If any of you want to port DNGDR to Skywind feel free to ... though I understand the desire to make something original. I just don't have time to mod these days or I would give it a go myself ... I haven't even played Skyrim yet but I finally bought I & I'm trying to find time here & there to play it.
I love the ideas thrown out in here, this is the kind of thing that adaptations and building on would be beneficial for. I get that it'd be a lot of work and the project's already huge, but a grander feel for this of all locations would definitely suit. Darknut's mod looks great, too, I'll definitely throw that onto my next MW playthrough.