[WIP] Dwemer Hall Tilesets

just a few notes:

but yeah this progress is looking really amazing! even with just placeholder textures, all the shapes are there and it's looking really wonderful

Nice! I like the idea of the rectangular parts holding the pipes to the ceiling

Maybe ceiling pipe bits could be a seperate model, so that level designers can do a lot of different things with them

Also, I like the dwemer barometers! Maybe they could have a very destroyed look sometimes, broken glass parts etc, and others could be less broken. I would think they wouldn't be TOO common? Definitely not a barometer on every tile, they would get boring and distracting. But they could make for a neat little accent next to a broken pipe that's spewing steam for instance, especially with your animation skills! imagine a little needle going crazy

For the turnable valves, I think this type of valve:

[External image]

screams "Dwemer" a lot more than the circular shape on the right. But you're a really good designer so I'm pretty sure that it will end up being great no matter what!

Great work!

Awesome. Numbers on manometer are too earthly though.
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You could create your dwemer number system (if they are based on babilon/assur - maybe 60-rical system)
Just degrees and color zones can be good too.

For example:


 

SKV, that looks really nice! As for the numbers, perhaps they could be written out using the Dwemeris font? Since there is no official example of what Dwemer numerals look like, making one up is sort of inserting headcanon, which I think should be avoided when possible.

> Headcanon Central
= What does that more specifically mean?
= Do you suggest that implementing new system is worse than applicating arabic number system to fantasy race?

[External image]

While there is nothing wrong with people having their own ideas on lore, forcing one's headcanon onto others is something that should definitely be avoided. Instead, one should search for more lore-friendly alternatives in order to strive instead for authenticity. I do not support headcanon injection. It has not been revealed what sort of numerals Dwemer would have used, and it would seem better to not rely on speculation. I propose to avoid using numerals and instead write numbers out in the Dwemeris font, or not have any at all.

Barra agea ry sou karan.

"Wear lore as your armor."

Really see no difference with adding plant or changing form of valve, but whatever.
That was just proposition, that looks better than arabic to me.

IMPRESIVE Work done here!

Meet Dmitriy

Dmitriy will decorate the stone columns by itself

Dmitriy, the first Dwemer gloryhole :D

Dragomir

Dmitriy, the first Dwemer gloryhole :D

No The second. THe first one was Sergey (look at previous page)

Dwemer quality!

found this: http://dwemerstudies.wiwiland.net/images/RuneChart.png

The only numbers i found in search

X?? - are just number_of_glyph, not like numerics.
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Anyway SpaceConstructionVehicle bypassed the problem using common pictograms, and this is satisfactorily from fanboy view, i presume.
 

That is amazing! Great work there! I also just thought of something, I wonder how it would look to use Dwemer 'wire mesh' for the window parts, something like this.
 

damn this is looking so great! 

I'll draw you up some windows real quick, maybe with a "wire mesh" window version as well

I'm thinking windows would be more along the lines of portholes, but in an oval shape sort of with the green glass curving outwards, like the green volcanic glass exterior parts

[External image]

I think the Dwemeri windows would be great like that, but I feel like the suspension halls don't necessarily need that. Perhaps in addition to the exterior parts, windows like that could look into larger cavern parts that connect the Dwemer tunnels.

Actually yeah I think you're right

With all of the other corridor parts, windows would probably end up sticking out and being distracting. If the plan is to have various stages of destruction or ruin for them, or under-construction portions of suspended halls, that should probably be more than enough and windows wouldn't add much to that. 

windows might just work better for exterior assets

little miscellaneous suggestion though: slower rotating fans. it would look very cool if fans rotated much more slowly, especially with light shining through them and casting moving shadows on the opposite wall

a few special sections might need to be made with the fan area cut out to allow for a light shining through

@discoccult: Awesome Idea! perhaps to give it a bit more of a ruined/mysterious Metro2033 feel?

@skv: what do you think about making variant with glass windows on lower side of corridor? This could make possible more interesting in-cave (and maybe underwater) encounters to be made by landscapers.

I'm sorry alysander, but your drawings are much too sci-fi and I think you're kind of skewing the vision in a direction it shouldnt be going. Before designing anything, you need to take a closer look at the original. We're not designing something entirely new, we're expanding on the ideas presented in vanilla Morrowind. 

Oh yeah and I think we are ditching the idea of having windows as part of the suspended corridors. the asset created for windows by whoever is doing the exterior parts could always be used by level designers though if they wish. (And openings would be created by broken sections or under-construction sections anyway)

Sorry if I'm sounding harsh

@skv I'm not sure how to create volumetric lights in CK without the use of a light shafts model but I know that there are good dynamic shadow casting lights! [External image]

Drawings are just schematic. there is no way if windows design can make smth more sci-fi.
Genres are determined by more global ideas: level of tech, magical beings, plausibility.
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Anyway i am talking only about giving more possibilities for landscapers - that's uncertain how it will be used.
Windows can be used in other cases than broken sections - for example to illustrate smth, that player shouldnt interfere at the moment, or smth that only decorative from distance.

there is no way if windows design can make smth more sci-fi.

actually yeah, designs can entirely determine what sort of genre a work will be placed into. really all I'm trying to say is that it would be beneficial to take a look at what makes the morrowind dwemer designs work.

Genres are determined by more global ideas: level of tech, magical beings, plausibility.

could you explain this? I'm not sure what you're saying here. 

Anyway i am talking only about giving more possibilities for landscapers - that's uncertain how it will be used.

yes and if you ask Ravanna for the 17-ish pages of dwemer asset sketches he did and which I am helping to refine and bring back into the morrowind aesthetic/ shapes, you'll notice that we already have plenty of designs and ideas and possibilities for level designers to create nice and varied dwemer environments.

like, I'm not saying it's not okay to contribute ideas. because it's totally okay and recommended for people to contribute ideas (just not time-traveling-elder-scroll ideas). 

I'm just saying I think we've got these corridors and halls under control. we have designs mostly nailed down for them.

(I am not trying to say that designs should not be critiqued or added to, because they're 100% open for that. I'm just saying we've got a pretty good idea of what we need to do for these assets in particular. again, I don't mean to sound harsh or ignore your input)

Windows can be used in other cases than broken sections - for example to illustrate smth, that player shouldnt interfere at the moment, or smth that only decorative from distance.

yes, windows could work for that, but I think that would be mostly in rooms or larger halls, not corridors. rubble or a mess of large pipes could also work just as well for this sort of thing. I know this kind of thing was done a lot in skyrim, especially in ancient nordic dungeons. in skyrim, mostly rubble or openings in stone were used to give little 'previews' of what was ahead in the dungeon. 

the primary issue I could see with this is that dwemer ruins in morrowind are not linear. most dungeons in skyrim are entirely linear, and so little glimpses of what was coming up in the level made sense for those. with morrowind's generally non-linear dwemer ruins, where the dwemer used to work and live, I'm not sure how that sort of level design aspect could be implemented. (on this note, for level designers, dwemer ruins should definitely definitely not be made into linear levels. I think they should keep the same basic structure/ layout if they are to work. but y'all probably already know that[External image])

so yeah instead of maybe using that kind of preview-window level design aspect to show something the player shouldnt interfere with at the moment, I could see it maybe being used just to highlight cool views honestly. I dont know what to say about this one

Genres are determined by more global ideas: level of tech, magical beings, plausibility.

> could you explain this? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Sci-fi differs from fantasy much more than design. Electrical lamps more alien to fantasy than windows.

I see your fears, but still i think that they are vain. Skv windows looks nice, i am sure that reposition variant cant change it.

> he primary issue I could see with this is that dwemer ruins in morrowind are not linear. most dungeons in skyrim are entirely linear, and so little glimpses of what was coming up in the level made sense for those. with morrowind's generally non-linear dwemer ruins, where the dwemer used to work and live, I'm not sure how that sort of level design aspect could be implemented. (on this note, for level designers, dwemer ruins should definitely definitely not be made into linear levels. I think they should keep the same basic structure/ layout if they are to work. but y'all probably already know that[External image])

= unlikely this worth to make dwemers' towns 100% equal to MW. In MW they was very small, actually like big container with one quest item, except 3 big settlements. I hope landscapers will make it more broad and look like they was really some kind of town. I am didnt saw reason why team shouldnt show new layers of dwemer history/culture/architecture.
 

I find it rather important to identify Dwemer culture and evidence of old civilization within the ruins of their cities, but the key component of doing so is lore authenticity. So no injecting headcanon in the form of number systems or sleek sci fi halls. Instead of working against what is established already, work with it instead.

I dont think that skv's corridors are sci-fi. They are obvious steam-punk/victorian epoch.

I don't think they are, I was referring to the idea of making smooth glass tunnels with underground vault-tech farms.

No. I am talking just about make windows option to be on lower side of tunnel. It could be much more of environments there to see, cave garden is only one example.
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And why do you think it is related to vault-tech? Not more than anything underground.

I get that you're advocating for windows on the lower parts. literally all I'm trying to say is that the smooth rectangular windows are a really big distraction and don't fit well with dwemer shapes/ aesthetic. I think there are better solutions than having these windows. 

like imagine you're a morrowind player who's pumped for skywind, and you get to your first dwemer ruin and see windows like that. while the rotating fans are a neat addition (which probably shouldnt be used too liberally, only here and there in some cool areas. they are a large piece.), the fans fit within the aesthetic defined by vanilla morrowind content and (hopefully) my concept art. however, the windows would seem like a bizarre design choice.

if it causes the player to be like "oh that's weird" instead of "oh that's cool," I think it would only work against the effect of the rest of the dwemer assets.

I could imagine a rotating fan in this picture without the design vision being changed entirely. I could not imagine a giant rectangular green glass window. I think that might be a good way of determining what sort of content can be added to vanilla. 

MW's dwemer ruins are fairly iconic and I think maintaining their feel as much as possible is pretty important

a few sidenotes for skv:

do you think we could try a version without the two metal strips on the lower half of the angled wall? the ones that create the three little stone panels. it could be good for variation to have a version with and without them.

also, it might be good to have a section with the two rounded pipe joint connector plates (version without the valve or barometers, just the smooth rounded piece) already in place, so that they would not always have to be placed manually by level designers

oh and a little note for corner connections, the stone should be smooth and curved rather than a harsh solid angle

Lattices are good too, but i am sure that original MW hasn't transparent glass more because tech than arts.
You can try to imagine glass in towers. There it was in original game.
 

The Dwemeri glass in the Vanilla game were in the form of windows looking outside on surface towers, rather than glass tunnels looking out at dirt and rock. If it could be done in a way that fits and works with the Dwemeri feel, then I would be for it, but I would prefer wire-mesh where there are openings in the suspended halls.

the suspended halls honestly really don't even need windows, considering everything else that will be going on with them. broken sections with chunks of stone paneling missing and under contruction pipe skeleton type pieces should be enough 

with the fans and the windows I just feel like there would be too many distracting things going on with these halls. fans are totally fine and will add to the feel if used sparingly by level designers, with shadow casting lights and volumetric dust, etc. I just feel like windows would be too much for the suspended halls in particular, however, in a few weeks (college apps, sorry [External image]) I could start changing my tall large dwemer hall concepts for maybe incorporating mesh windows in some areas/ to make them more modular and varied for level designers (will be going over more of Rav's pages). I'd like to put more "morrowind" back into the large hall sections.

wow sweet!!

hey man I'll be sure to draw you up some ideas for how the platforms can be expanded+ new fancy plates for on top of these as soon as I can [External image]

the walls themselves are looking very smooth, which doesn't reeeally fit dwemer. I'll draw up a few ideas on how to break up the monotonous walls with patterns and outcroppings and all sorts of good stuff [External image]

designing for the walls without using vertical and horizontal pipes built-in is sorta weird because they were attached to the wall pieces in morrowind, but we'll figure something out

agh I just wish I had time to draw in the next few weeks :(

for platforms, maybe they could incorporate stone like these 

I know this is a lot of WIP stuff though, I gotcha! It's all coming along really well!

Great work skv!

@skv1991

I think u already planed this but don't forget to add specular or bump to corridors/halls (normal maybe sounds too heavy but I'm not sure). It looks too "flat" now but I understand this is only WIP, and this is last step.

I'm really loving this!

Maybe there could be two variations of the end parts, one that's just a continuation of the angle and large middle pipe and another like the drawing you did.

also, for stone panels, I'm thinking for texture that some could have a little bit of spotty dwemer text that's kinda worn down, but most of the things on them would be some weird esoteric patterns that I'll be able to design next weekend