Hello there. Name's Nadir, 20 years old, I'm from Poland.
I have to say that you guys are truly amazing.
I want to be useful too, so I decided to redesign the Robe of the Hortator. I'm not even sure if it's needed or if it's good enough, but hey, it doesn't hurt to try.
The Robe is given to player by Aryon, so I wanted it to look more Telvannish. I was inspired mostly by Dragomir's art. :D Unfortunately I'm no digital artist, so coloring is, well, crappy. Sorry about that.
I'll be grateful for any critiques, suggestions etc.
hello Nadir!
I really like the design, although I cant compare it to the original since it did not have a unique model. Overall the Telvanni style shines through, and I particularly like the choice of colour, with all the purples and magical blues. The Jewelry is a nice touch too, which makes it seem somewhat traditional and tribal.
One thing I could suggest to enhance the Hortator-iness would be to armour the upper section slightly, since the Hortator acts as a war chief. this could be a thick leather piece that covers the front and doesnt have to actually be effective, and could purely be decorative. Thats just a thought, only so that it is distinguished from other pieces of clothing. Overall though it is a nice robe concept and I like what I see.
Thank you, Django! I'm happy that you like it.
Honestly I was thinking about a chitin chestplate or something, but I was afraid that it will cover the belt and jewelry. I'll try to add some armour, though, thanks for a good suggestion. :)
I'm not really sure if that's actually the best way to go. I think the concept as of now is good - even though it leaves a lot to the imagination. I like the way it is inspired by the typical Telvanni features, but diverges in details and so emphasizes the special role of the Hortator.
However, in Skywind, armored Robes with blue-ish tint appear pretty prominently here:
(Especially the "Order of the Doctrine" guy at the left looks pretty similar to what I imagine your robe if it featured armor.)
As Nerevar was of house Indoril, this is befitting in some way, but I still think the robe of the Hortator should have a more distinct style, so if you decide to put in a piece of armor, maybe play around with the colors a little, I'd imagine something more red-ish, to single it out more.
I'm loving the look of the robes!
I do agree with maxnosense in going with something similar to the look of Ordinators. Nothing too much like the full armor, and I'm thinking something similar to either of the 2 figures on the left. Some simple pauldrons, a covered chest piece, something like that.
Still, even without that stuff, I think the robe looks great, and I particularly enjoy the added Telvanni flair. Looking good!
You mentioned that you disliked your color jog, it lacked shading so i took a stab at it
Thanks for your opinions. I certainly don't want it to be the robe of Ordinator. :P
I drew two different chestplates. The left one is made of chitin like pauldrons. It's under the blue part of robe, so it's not too exposed and the outfit looks somehow less plain now. I'm not sure if wearing armour under the robe makes any sense, though.
The right one is something like the exquisite robe has. Pattern is pretty similar too, but eventually I'll change it to something more appropriate. It can be made of leather, I guess.
And thank you for shading, Acheryus! I love it.
Nadir wrote:
Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding: I don't want it to be that either. What I wanted to say was just the opposite: that especially with the scarf, if you add armor to the robe as it is, it will probably look pretty similar to what the Order of the Doctrine is wearing.
So - to make it not look like a robe of Ordinator - it may make sense to use different colors.
I know, I understand what you mean. I want the colors to stay unchanged, though. It's not actually that similar to the Ordinator outfit, I think... Of course I can design some other chest pieces if these aren't good, or add some fancy patterns, so it won't be so plain.
Hello again.
I changed some things in the robe design, now it should look slightly better. For now it's only a sketch, but if the idea is acceptable enough, I'll draw it better, with traditional coloring, shading and stuff. Since it seems like adding an armor piece wasn't the best idea, I ended up with drawing something similar to that leather (?) thingy from Telvanni Robe as seen in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC. Oh, and don't mind the staff, it's not really a part of the concept.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
This is good mostly, but is it supposed to be with dress armature?
I dont think so. I would appreciate some gravity and more massive/long limbs.
What do you mean exactly? I'm not sure if I understand correctly.
Oh, I see now. You're right of course, I'll try to fix it. Thanks!
I'm not sure if the robe should be that narrow, though. I mean, I thought it's supposed to be slightly wider at the bottom.
On a side note: I really like that staff. Might think of using it for something.
Oh my, that's something I didn't expect. I'd be happy if my staff can be of any use to you.
Suggestion- Make this much more of an armored robe. After all, the hortator is a warlord. While it can be ceremonial to a point, it should still be practical on the battlefield.
Well, I wanted to add some armor, but then it will look too similar to Ordinator outfit, I'm afraid. Also it's considered as clothing piece rather than armor, right? I'm not even sure if warchief of House Telvanni really needs armor, they're mages after all...
Fixed proportions.
I actually think having an Indoril armored robe style for the Hortator would make sense, considering Nerevar was of House Indoril, so having something thematically similar would make sense.
IcarusBen wrote:
The hortator is a special position in the history of the dunmer / chimer, but even though Indoril Nerevar was the most famous hortator, the position itself is not tied to house Indoril per se. Since the artifact at hand belongs to house Telvanni, it makes perfect sense to make it look like it, too.
I don't know... It just makes more sense to me for someone whose past life is so entwined with that of House Indoril to get Indoril robes. Of course, ideally, you'd want five different models of the Robe (one for each house) and have the Indoril one be the default with the other four being dependent on if you joined a House, but the scripting and the modelling would be a nightmare. I think.
And yes, I know. House Dres doesn't have holdings on Vvardenfell, but I remember somewhere people were wanting Dres to be added to Skywind, so... yeah.
A hortator is just the leader of the military forces of a given House. 'The Hortator' was Nerevar - the only person to unite all the House forces under his leadership. When Telvanni declares you their hortator, they're giving you the robes of the general who leads their forces. It's just one step toward fulfilling the prophecy. While Nerevar may have had a similar relic bestowed upon him, there's no reason whoever lead the Telvanni forces against the Akaviri invaders wouldn't have also had some special robes as well.
I thought the Hortator was unique in that he lead every house into war.
Again, my reasoning is that Nerevar was of House Indoril, and many people see little difference between Nerevar and the Nerevarine, he'd get an Indoril robe.
Of course, now that Skyrim doesn't support belts (ironic, eh?) how will we handle the Redoran reward? It could be either reworked into a Hlaalu ring, Redoran amulet and Telvanni robe, or have it be boots, gauntlets and an armored robe in the Indoril style.
Isn't this vanilla robe?
We have a robe with a bee on the chest. How about something weird like that?
IcarusBen wrote:
I still fail to understand why a Telvanni Hortator is supposed to wear an Indoril outfit. As for the Redoran belt, I don't know what can be done in this matter.
Mo... wrote:
No, it isn't. In Morrowind this item used the design of exquisite robe, so I wanted to create something a little bit similar, yet different. Feedback is always appreciated, though for now I'm not really sure about that "weird" part.
Okay, so in the main quest, you become Hortator of the Three Houses, correct? Okay. Now, why is the Redoran or Hlaalu Hortator wearing Telvanni robes? Considering Nerevar's status as the King of Resdayn, Hortator of the Five Houses and quite possible the most influential member of House Indoril (I believe somewhere it says he's the founder of the House) and the Nerevarine being the reincarnation of Nerevar, then you should either wear house-neutral attire or wear the attire of the house you're most closely associated with. Since Nerevar was the leader of House Indoril, logically that means the Nerevarine should be wearing Indoril robes.
I've also noticed this conversation is looping.
"Why does the Nerevarine get Indoril robes?" "Cause he's Indoril." "But, why does the Nerevarine get Indoril robes?" "Cause he's Indoril." ad infinitum.
IcarusBen wrote:
Exactly. Three Houses. You don't become the Indoril Hortator. And if someone becomes Hortator of your House, you'll give to him something of your House, not the other one. I don't believe that Aryon would give an Indoril robe to whoever becomes the Telvanni Hortator for whatever reason. The same with Hlaalu and Redoran. To answer your question: why not? You become Hortator of Three Houses, so you can (though you don't have to) wear artifacts of all these Houses. Makes perfect sense to me.
Nerevar was an outlander - not even born in Morrowind. His family may have been Indoril, but he had no power or standing. He was a merchant's guard when he met Almalexia, who was already a ruler in her own right. Her house isn't mentioned, but it could even be that she was the head of Indoril and gave Nerevar his place in the House. This gave Nerevar mobility among the Chimer nobility.
Anyway, you're ignoring what I said before. Telvanni names you their hortator. You do some stuff for Hlaalu, Hlaalu names you their hortator. None of these guys are able to name you The Hortator, the meaning of which is someone who leads all the armies of the Great Houses at the same time. That is what Nerevar was, and the prophecy says that Nerevar reborn will unite the houses as Hortator again - in reflection of the deed Nerevar performed. A hortator is a 'general'. You lead forces. The Hortator is like being bestowed the title of 'Great General'. Telvanni can't declare you 'The General'. They can only name you hortator of Telvanni. The general of the Telvanni forces. It's not an Indoril thing. It's a Telvanni thing for a Telvanni general. That's why you have to jump through all these hoops, and it's used as a sign of prophecy if you become hortator of all these disparaging factions - it's very unusual for a non-Telvanni to be given command of Telvanni forces. Same for Redoran, or Hlaalu, or the four Ashlander tribes. These groups all war among each other, and you are somehow able to unite them all.
Let's look at something else with a similar deal. Game of Thrones. Robert Baratheon rules over the 'seven kingdoms'. He's a king, with a kingdom made up of seven kingdoms. That doesn't just make him a king of Westeros, that makes him The King. He holds seven different king titles. Nerevar had the title 'hortator' of all five houses, and the Ashlander tribes. That didn't make him like other generals of armies before, that made him The Hortator. Telvanni gave him the robes their generals wear as sign of his leadership of their army. The Zainab gave him their 'thong' to show that he lead their people in battle. The items you receive as you are named hortator may not even be the same items Nerevar was given - leather thongs would probably wear out eventually for instance, but it's a symbol. Like the dual crown of the ruler of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Necromancy time!
I present you the gazillionth version of my robe. As you probably can see, I 'borrowed' the model pose from Dragomir (sorry about that), so there shouldn't be any anatomy issues this time.
As for the design, I changed some things and added colors, finally. I hope that this version is better than previous ones, but let me know if it's still not acceptable enough.
I agree with maxnosense since Nerevar was of House Indoril and he was the first to take up the position it would make sense it to be more Indoril style or rather a combination of all major house design styles since he is the leader of them all. Plus it should be a armored robe because Hortator was more a military title if I'm not mistaken.
Dear lord. I don't mean to be offensive, but do I really have to explain it again? Alright, I'll quote myself.
Nadir wrote:
And why should it be a combination of all houses? Every house gives you an artifact, isn't that enough? Also, Telvanni are mages. Mages don't really need armor.
Fenrir wrote:
Please stop agreeing with me, if you don't actually agree with me. I have no idea what I did wrong, but this is the exact opposite of what I wrote and I don't want to have to state this all the time.
Oh, I couldn't even see that text because I've got the black background thing for the site. Yeah, if the peoples haven't gotten it by now they never will. Just ignore them and keep it Telvanni.
Next they'll want the Thong of Zainab to be turnes into an Indoril bikini.
Thank you. Indoril bikini sounds quite interesting, though. :p
On a side note, does anyone know if we'll have belts in Skywind or will they be changed into something different? Belts probably won't be visible on characters anyway, otherwise they'll clip with pretty much everything, I suppose.
No plans for belts I believe, will be included in the body armor/wear slot.
Soo... I'm sorry for being such a pain in the ash, but I'm not sure what am I supposed to do now. Do you guys want me to change something else, or is my concept approved maybe?