https://tesrenewal.com/files/FDT%202/images/Armun%20An%20Shi...
Hello,
I got the honor of redesigning the old Armun An shield. For reference original shield and Skywinds version of Armun An armor:
These are my first thoughts about the shield, no closer examples for new look for now. Sharing to make sure to please y´all.
1: I remember the shield mostly worn by Hlaalu guards in MW. So I would like to design it like an ancient version of modern police shield. Two things are important for anti-riot shields: The size and recess for sight and weapons. They are big enough to blockade a door or to seal off alleys with not more than three guards.
Hlaalu guards were mainly stationed in Balmora. Depending on Balmoras narrow streets, many stairs and men-sized doors these kind of shield would help guards the best way with keeping the streets clean. They don´t need a shield concipated for battlefield or easy running around nature.
2: So we have a put shield. Size would realistically be from head to toes, but that would look weird with running anims from Skyrim. So it shouldn´t go over knees. Also a recess for better sight could be at one of the upper edges. Would also help for 1st person view.
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3: For materials I´ld like to see a realistic build, that means a wooden (maybe reinforced with iron) base, leather upholstery and the bone-plates fixed on that. Rivets, nails and leather lacing will also be nice details. Original shield was flat like a door. In real life this wouldn´t be a good riot shield. With a slight bulge at face, hits or ranged weapons will glance off better.
4: For the grip I thought about a single enarme and a leather stripe for fuse. Would fit with Skyrims shield animation and comes most realistic. Single centered grip will look weird.
5: At least I thought about details. It´s a common guard shield, so jewelry and ornaments wont fit. Something like carved runes in the bone structure would be ok, maybe an intimidating verdict for frightening the opponent. Furthermore we got the bonemold structure itself and the tool marks (rivets, leather, wood, metal, lacings) for a earthly look.
So that´s my interpretation. Do you all agree? Or is it totally wrong? Please give any thoughts you might have, so this iconic shield gets a redesign everyone is satisfied with.
Alternative to wooden shield base, we can work with papyrus shields (roman) or braided shield mats (samurai). Looks more interesting and perhaps fits elven craftsmanship better.
Check my post in iron shield design regarding grips, fun fact - there was an event where me and my historical reenactment brotherhood could chill and talk a lot with Polish riot police, and they seemed to agree that a double strap grip is not always the best idea, since their shields are mainly for protection from stones, bottles, molotovs and firecrackers being thrown at them, and a singular grip lets you move it out and cover a bigger area. And yeah, being squished in a dense crowd and pushing with it is perfectly possible with a single grip as well, especially if you brace your shoulder against it. And most importantly, Skyrim shield animations are for a singular grip only...
Oh, my fault! I remember playing skyrim with this mod, which changes the blocking animation to a more realistic one:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/60784/?
But my modlist was so huge, I thought those were vanilla ;) Thanks for the hint, I´ll kepp that in mind. Will come up with silhouettes ad sketches soon.
The way of attaching the shield is not that important. It will be solved eventually by the modeller to fit the game's requirements.
Just get rid of all that concerns the handle, and focus on the overall shape and aspect. I love the fact that you chose a riot shield as main inspiration for those bulky football players. Try to play around with more different shapes, that's the most important. You don't necessarily need to have a rectangular shield.
Keep it up!
I have made sketches! Based on following silhouettes and keeping in mind the usage and size of riot shield.
Made them look naturally, bulky and rough, as these are attributes, which fit Hlaalus armor style in my opinion. Feel free to overpaint, critisize, whatever!
As soon as we will have found the fitting look, I´ll have a more detailed drawing, where things like grip, material, overall visibility will be involved.
The weird forms are made after natural inspirations. I don´t know how melted bones would look when they´re crafted into bonemold armor, so these forms aren´t processed thorough to keep production cheap and fast perhaps?
Anyhow I had some small ideas while designing: A and G have a protecting "cage" around sights recess. B and E have attached objects for a more fatal bash. C and F are lighter builts. D is only rough and heavy and H is posted mainly for showing the idea of coved shield and grip. Next sketchs will include dummys to show usage...
Bonemold is not melted bone. It's a mixture of bonemeal and resin, which is then cast into mold. Hence, the name.
I think, these shield designs are more fit for chitin and trollbone armours. Alternatively, shapes like these could work for ashlander-made bonemold items, as they use shells of native fauna for their molds.
Additionally, natural is not something i would use to describe Hlallu art style.
@Radastan
Thinking about your hints, I made this 3 quick sketches, depending on armor shapes. Already maybe too rough worked, but a less primitive built concept.
The last ones are a bit more boring...
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Here, however...
G is interesting. F needs to be used for something, it's gorgeous.
D and E are great and fitting, in my opinion. I'd choose them. D is more classical, E is more original, but both are very cool!
I want the D.
At first, sorry for beeing afk so long here. Had a high amount of work to do sorry again. But here we go:
Made a detailed sketch on the base of scribble D in upper post. We have a wooden plate, overdrawn with leather. On that we have the 3 bonemold plates, moored with leather straps and rivets. The wooden plate has a light bulge, the grip is jutting out for better hold.
Maybe addditional details: Horns for bashing, a small pennant like at the shoulder in the reference armor at first post, more runes carved in the surface...
What do you think? BTW: Some strange reason, I can´t post the pics directly in the text today, so they are beyound :.(
Fixed it for you /Mace
You could have kept vertical line in the middle. Otherwise, looks perfect to me!
Fantastic work dude!
I also just came to say that I love your style of illustration. Would love to see you do stuff for the in-game books or maps.
Seems a little impractical to have the shield cover everything but the face in my opinion. Other than that though great job, I'm loving the look of the design.
Thank yáll for the flowers and Maze for updating! Then I´ll go to coloring and play a bit with your suggestions.
darkslayer49 wrote:
Obscuring your view is often what gets you killed. It's less important to have your face covered, than to have a good field of view - that's why in medieval times nobody worn a visor down in a melee, only during a horseback charge, or advancing to a besieged castle. Not to mention a crook on that side also allows for more weapon arm mobility.
I really like that final shield design, it's got a nice silhouette and works with the armor. I'd still make it a touch smaller though, as NPC's will be holding it horizontally when in an idle position, and if it's too big it might not look well.
But that's just a little difference, other than that I'm not sure if the wood and leather is necessary here. I know having multiple materials is always more interesting, but bonemold is stiff and strong on its own, and adding wood and leather seems like unnecessary weight. At the same time, a shield made from Dunmer materials only seems much more exotic and native, and more materials is more work for the modeller, while not many people will give much attention to the back of the shield.
Here's a very rough sketch of an alternative shield back. Note that I also straightened the grip and pushed it in - a flat shield with a grip sticking out does not work at all, the grip has to be in the very middle of balance if it is to be operable.
I see what you mean by the wood feeling out of place, but I think it does look a little too weak at the joins between the segments now. The dark rectangles seem like they could be easily bent, deforming the whole shape of the shield. It would be good if you could have a couple of vertical slats either side of the handle, either wooden planks, long pieces of bonemold, or maybe even a more exotic alternative, such as the bones from a Silt Strider's legs.
Otherwise, looks amazing. The shape is absolutely perfect.
beautiful, but jesus that thing must be heavy.
Defence +1000 ingame I assume? it could stop a clanfear dead in its tracks
@FDT 2 That's amazingly detailed!
I am agree with Drago - such materials must be pretty deficient and non-traditional on island.
I wonder if some intact bones could be used instead of wood.
There can be variant with visor_holes / cancellated_parts (to completely match police shields), but maybe that's too complex for damn elves :)
While I disagree that wood on Morrowind is too scarce for use in shields (c.f. wooden beams in Hlaalu interiors, wooden furniture and use on ships etc.), I do think it's unnecessary here, and makes the already-heavy looking shield look heavier. Also the flimsy-looking leather straps and rivets attaching the wooden boards to the bonemold plates don't look ready for battle. I think some extra struts (wooden/metal/bonemold etc.) either riveted or moulded (if made of bonemold) would be perfect, but they would have to look very solid or it would look like the shield could easily split into pieces given a strong hammer blow. The alternative is to have the plates directly bonded and moulded into eachother - this could be done while maintaining the segmented look by having them, for example, molded together on the front down a central spine and more completely on the back of the shield.
One thing I think should be noted is that the shield has a very rough and organic form in comparison to the Armun-An armour, which is very smooth (i.e. straight or neatly curving lines). This is actually one concern I've had about this armour, though in general I really like it. Bonemould should be organic in shape, but the Hlaalu set really isn't. Either the armour needs to be made less smooth or the shield needs to look less organic.
@Sechrima: Yes, some people already sent me PMs with that argument, you´re the first to post it in public, thanks for that.
When you look at first sketches, almost D, I made the shield a lot smoother. And shield shapes in compare with armor shapes weren´t the big deal, too. We have two ways now: Holding the upper shown design and improving it or make a new form, depending on curves and all that. What will the majority of users want?
I really like this shield shape, and compared to the concept the armor was made much more rough looking, enough for this shield to be fitting anyway. I also like the idea of using intact bones as a frame, in place of wood.
Small update with quick rough sketches (have to work secretly at workplace this week XP). Mainly focused on the shields back, but also realised some of the other ideas suggested here:
Edit: Will make sketch for intact bone frame, too, but I´m in lack of ideas for now.
It catches the old Morrowind feel, but looks completely different, which is good, excellent even! Hell I'd go into battle naked with just that shield.
Nailed it.
The face holes version looks awesome, plus the little horns and maybe some more carvings and the front of it is perfect in my book <3 for the back I really like the look of the siltstrider legs but I'm also convinced you could come up with something even better :) One thing however is that it doesn't really match the armor, however that's because of the armor, not the shield, the armor looks a little bit to nice and polished. Keep up the great work and hopefully your writer's (designer's?) block is over soon
If you feel lack of ideas, use more ribs and spine as grip. However, such thing can be "too unique".
And chitin-legs variant is great too. Use of more abundant species than silt-strider recommended (Shalk for example).
I think I got it! While thinking about the bone-plate, I had this idea:
While the bonemold lies in shape and is a bit fluid at the end of hardening process, the grip is dipped into it. Then it´s pulled out again and the mold snags around it. When it is hardenend completely, the grip is properly fixed and we have a solid back of the shield (inside of turtles panzer was the inspiration).
Also reduced the size a bit:
For this version 1.1 we have just bonemold and leather as materials. The distorted bonemold creates little cavities. This results in reduced weight, simplicity in manufacturing and a fabricant, but also natural design. This is my favourite so far, what do you think?
why not mix both of them ?
I like the last FDT's concept the most, and I'd go without face holes. Not because they look bad or anything, but I'd just save that idea for the Gah Julan shield, which had these holes in Morrowind. For the sake of variety.
Colors WIP: I`ll stay to original design, making Hlaalu shield blocky and somehow simple. Spare visor holes for Redoran, in vanilla game there were 5(!) different bonemold shields, so I´m sure, they will be done on one of them. Resolution 72ppi, for a proper view.
Final Concept:
It was a lot of fun, I hope you like it!
What are leather strips for? I thought that's intact bone parts.
They are for additional durability. We have three smaller bonemold-plates, molded together at their backs (lesser weight than one massive plate). But strong hits would make them shake and break quicker. so they are tied firmly together with the thick leathers.
Edit: Besides I got rid of them, but then it didn´t look as solid anymore.